Atheist Britain ?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Quite similar to saying evolution did it when talking about hypothetical fossils though.

Evolution did not create life, it explains the diversity of species across the globe. We've been here before. You refuse to even address or accept the mountains of evidence supporting Evolution. That's your choice. It is scientific fact and not in dispute. It isn't even worth arguing so I won't continue. You think what you like but please don't ask why people think you're a moron.

And I'd agree filling god into gaps is not a grounds to stop learning, but that doesn't omit the idea of God or a creator.

I am not dismissing the idea and I will reconsider it if there is any evidence provided. I just think it is weak that because somebody doesn't understand something they declare that it must have been God. It is extremely lazy and exactly what the text in my signature below refers to. You're here because all of your ancestors lived long enough to breed successfully. Every single one of them. Thanks to them you have a highly evolved human brain. The human brain is probably the most complicated object known to humans. You're really letting your ancestors down here.
 


Evolution did not create life, it explains the diversity of species across the globe. We've been here before. You refuse to even address or accept the mountains of evidence supporting Evolution. That's your choice. It is scientific fact and not in dispute. It isn't even worth arguing so I won't continue. You think what you like but please don't ask why people think you're a moron.



I am not dismissing the idea and I will reconsider it if there is any evidence provided. I just think it is weak that because somebody doesn't understand something they declare that it must have been God. It is extremely lazy and exactly what the text in my signature below refers to. You're here because all of your ancestors lived long enough to breed successfully. Every single one of them. Thanks to them you have a highly evolved human brain. The human brain is probably the most complicated object known to humans. You're really letting your ancestors down here.
Yes I know it didn't, I'm talking about the gaps in knowledge are commonly filled with evolution based on the idea we know evolution can cause adaptations, which is filling the gaps just the same as to say biogenesis or inception of the universe are proof that we were created, it's at best lazy and at worst a lie.

The messianic prophesies in the Old Testament that are referred to in the New Testament are very tenuous. They are merely very short extracts from much longer passages that have been taken totally out of context. One is even taken from a passage where the person at the time is talking about the past rather than the future. Old Testament prophets tended to predict events that were in the near future at the time, warnings on where contemporary attitudes and behaviour would lead. They didn't make psychic prophesies of the future, although they may have made general predictions. Certainly, none of the New Testament ones referred to were as specific about Jesus as is claimed. The prophesies by Jesus are also based on common sense projections of where human behaviour would lead over time but they were expecting the End of Days in the near future as is indicated by the number of messianic claimants in the First Century. Some of Jesus' references to the "Second Coming" of the "Son of Man" are probably what signs to look for in genuine masters that followed him to avoid the mistake of following one of the many claimants whose motivations were probably political.

Matthew in particular liked his prophesies from the Old Testament but he appears to have made up stories such as the Flight to Egypt in his narrative so that the prophecy referring to the Messiah coming out of Egypt could be included.



This is a contentious issue and would probably need a very long post in response but none of us what that especially me, as I would have to type the ducker. :) I'll try to be brief.

Christianity is based on the interpretation of Paul which is why it is referred to as Pauline Christianity. Jesus was a Nazorean, a Hebrew that was probably from Judea rather than Galilee. His mothers side of the family appear to have been Sadducees involved in the Temple services as High Priest. Jesus is quoted as saying that he has not come to defy the scriptures, and hence the law, but to fulfil them. To bring fulfilment to those who are sincere in their practice. He explains that the mind is the source of temptation and advises control of thought to achieve mindfulness. That adultery begins in the mind before the law has been broken. With Baptism of Spirit he revealed the source of virtue so that to a sincere disciple, the law was effectively redundant. To put it another way, best to avoid sin than have to deal with the consequences later.

And the Masters make the rules
For the wise men, and the fools.


However, new discip0les that were Jewish had already been circumcised but new disciples that were gentile were then required to be circumcised. The movement of Jesus in Palestine remained the same after his death as it had been before so Jesus did not end that aspect of Mosaic Law. In his breakaway religion of Christianity, Paul challenges circumcision for Gentiles, something that James the brother of Jesus who succeeded Christ, readily allowed. Paul's intense hostility to the Jewish "Christians" and Mosaic Law is easily determined when it is remembered that those who he is attacking in authentic letters such as Galatians are James the brother of Jesus and Simon Peter. His diatribes against them are also continued in other authentic letters such as Romans. So it was Paul not Jesus that abandoned Mosaic Law which is clear from his letters. The earliest Gospel is that of Mark but that is after several of Paul's authentic letters which he had at his disposal being a friend of Luke who was a companion of Paul. Mark therefore reflects Pauline Christianity and doesn't seem to know actual Jewish traditions as is demonstrated several times in his Gospel. He also misrepresents Mosaic Law as being unified across Palestine whereas it was interpreted differently according to locale. So the only perspective available is a Gentile interpretation of a Gentile breakaway religion.

I've tried to be brief but this a very complex subject. ;)

The main argument here appears to be between theism and material atheism. If I was asked the question whether I was religious or followed any particular faith, my answer would be no as I am not a theist but that doesn't make me a materialist atheist which would be the wrong assumption. Maybe I am one of the "silent" majority. :D
Can you make this more brief, maybe bullet points or something, I'm quite busy and I'm only on here for a 5 minute break every now and then ;)
 
To argue over Richard Dawkins would take days and ultimately be pointless.

I'm happy that all the evidence I'm aware of firstly points to a creator and secondly points to the bible as the word of God.

I agree with a lot of what people say about religion etc, none of this Matters since we're talking about you and it's you who is deflecting the questions
Ha'way Pie, don't be a tease and kindly list [some of] 'all the evidence' you claim to possess.
 
Yes I know it didn't, I'm talking about the gaps in knowledge are commonly filled with evolution based on the idea we know evolution can cause adaptations, which is filling the gaps just the same as to say biogenesis or inception of the universe are proof that we were created, it's at best lazy and at worst a lie.

The sad thing is there are plenty more of you. :)
 
Yes I know it didn't, I'm talking about the gaps in knowledge are commonly filled with evolution based on the idea we know evolution can cause adaptations, which is filling the gaps just the same as to say biogenesis or inception of the universe are proof that we were created, it's at best lazy and at worst a lie.


Can you make this more brief, maybe bullet points or something, I'm quite busy and I'm only on here for a 5 minute break every now and then ;)

:lol: The odd thing is that you sometimes come across as intelligent.
 
I'm not sure what your point is, I know there are lots of stories and legends passed down but only the bible contains prophecy and prediction which is evident to me.

Messianic prophesies from Old Testament in New Testament are very tenuous.
They are short extracts from longer passages taken out of context.
One is where the person is talking about the past rather than the future.
Old Testament prophets predicted events that were near future at the time.
Warnings on where contemporary attitudes and behaviour would lead.
They didn't make psychic prophesies of the future.
None were as specific about Jesus as is claimed.
Prophesies by Jesus also based on common sense projections of where human behaviour would lead.
They were expecting the End of Days in the near future.
Indicated by the number of messianic claimants in the First Century.
Jesus' references to the "Second Coming" of the "Son of Man" are about what signs to look for in genuine masters after him.
To avoid the mistake of following one of the claimants whose motivations were political.
Matthew in particular liked his prophesies from the Old Testament.
He made up stories like the Flight to Egypt so the prophecy of the Messiah coming out of Egypt could be included.
 
Messianic prophesies from Old Testament in New Testament are very tenuous.
They are short extracts from longer passages taken out of context.
One is where the person is talking about the past rather than the future.
Old Testament prophets predicted events that were near future at the time.
Warnings on where contemporary attitudes and behaviour would lead.
They didn't make psychic prophesies of the future.
None were as specific about Jesus as is claimed.
Prophesies by Jesus also based on common sense projections of where human behaviour would lead.
They were expecting the End of Days in the near future.
Indicated by the number of messianic claimants in the First Century.
Jesus' references to the "Second Coming" of the "Son of Man" are about what signs to look for in genuine masters after him.
To avoid the mistake of following one of the claimants whose motivations were political.
Matthew in particular liked his prophesies from the Old Testament.
He made up stories like the Flight to Egypt so the prophecy of the Messiah coming out of Egypt could be included.
I preferred it as prose, I don't think it works that well as free verse.
 
He did change a few laws otherwise all Christians would obey the mosaic law, but ultimately he removed laws and unburdened the people.

Christianity is based on the interpretation of Paul
Jesus was a Nazorean, a Hebrew
His mother’s family were Sadducees involved in Temple as High Priest.
Jesus said he had not come to defy scriptures and the law but to fulfil them.
To bring fulfilment to those who are sincere in their practice.
He explains that mind is the source of temptation
Advises control of thought to achieve mindfulness.
That adultery begins in the mind before the law has been broken.
With Baptism of Spirit he revealed the source of virtue
To a sincere disciple, the law was effectively redundant.
Best to avoid sin than have to deal with the consequences later.

Jewish disciples had already been circumcised
Gentile new disciples required to be circumcised.
The movement of Jesus in Palestine remained the same after his death
Jesus did not end that aspect of Mosaic Law.
In his breakaway religion of Christianity, Paul challenges circumcision for Gentiles
James the brother of Jesus who succeeded Christ, readily allowed.
Paul's intense hostility to the Jewish "Christians" and Mosaic Law is easily determined
Those who he is attacking in authentic letters such as Galatians are James the brother of Jesus and Simon Peter.
His diatribes against them continued in other authentic letters such as Romans.
So it was Paul not Jesus that abandoned Mosaic Law which is clear from his letters.
The earliest Gospel is Mark but that is after several of Paul's authentic letters.
He had letter copies being a friend of Luke who was a companion of Paul.
Mark therefore reflects Pauline Christianity and doesn't seem to know actual Jewish customs
Demonstrated several times in his Gospel.
He misrepresents Mosaic Law as being unified across Palestine whereas it was not
Was interpreted differently according to locale.
The only perspective available is a Gentile interpretation of a Gentile breakaway religion.

I preferred it as prose, I don't think it works that well as free verse.

You're right because there are nuances that get lost when abbreviated into a list. It's a complex issue and the nuances often throw more light on the subject than the actual basic material content.
 
Last edited:
I preferred it as prose, I don't think it works that well as free verse.

Looks like the abbreviated version is still too verbose for Lubes.

So I'd better edit it further into:

1) Messianic prophesies from Old Testament in the New Testament are very tenuous.

2) Christianity is based on the interpretation of Paul

3) The only perspective available is a Gentile interpretation of a Gentile breakaway religion.

I'll probably be asked to elaborate on those points next.
 
Looks like the abbreviated version is still too verbose for Lubes.

So I'd better edit it further into:

1) Messianic prophesies from Old Testament in the New Testament are very tenuous.

2) Christianity is based on the interpretation of Paul

3) The only perspective available is a Gentile interpretation of a Gentile breakaway religion.

I'll probably be asked to elaborate on those points next.
Maybe later,I'm sure what point you're making though.
 
Quite similar to saying evolution did it when talking about hypothetical fossils though.

And I'd agree filling god into gaps is not a grounds to stop learning, but that doesn't omit the idea of God or a creator.


He did change a few laws otherwise all Christians would obey the mosaic law, but ultimately he removed laws and unburdened the people.

Didn't you say he didn't interfere earlier in the thread ?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top