Britain first, UKIP, Tories

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Didnt think this thread would warm the cockles of my heart,a reminder of why I dont post anymore, shameful.
 


Cockney Mackem said:
In theory though, someone could have no information on UKIP's policies (ie not have read their manifesto), but could have read and heard all their public communication regarding immigration and asylum and have formed a relevant opinion on how they have treated the issue?
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Ok mate lets say for argument sake your theory is correct, then you would being an intelligent chap would first look up the policy from the Party you are going to attack with an extremely emotive picture.
Then being still the intelligent chap would pause for thought and think hmmm that image i have of said Party (because of and ill concede some nutters and also being an intelligent chap youd concede every party has its fair share that doesnt reflect the bulk) is actually not quite what i thought. Then if you would have half a brain cell think better not post that pic as you would be considered a f***ing imbecile and youd be right.
Ill happily accept criticism of any policy and argue for the ones i agree with, but to attack in this way is simply wrong and makes the op seem holier than thou, that some how one side has the moral high ground on this! To me this OP is vile and moronic.
 
Wierd Valley Mackem said:
Ok mate lets say for argument sake your theory is correct, then you would being an intelligent chap would first look up the policy from the Party you are going to attack with an extremely emotive picture.
Then being still the intelligent chap would pause for thought and think hmmm that image i have of said Party (because of and ill concede some nutters and also being an intelligent chap youd concede every party has its fair share that doesnt reflect the bulk) is actually not quite what i thought. Then if you would have half a brain cell think better not post that pic as you would be considered a f***ing imbecile and youd be right.
Ill happily accept criticism of any policy and argue for the ones i agree with, but to attack in this way is simply wrong and makes the op seem holier than thou, that some how one side has the moral high ground on this! To me this OP is vile and moronic.
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So what you're saying is, it's only acceptable to discuss the written policies of a political party, not how it communicates on the issues?
 
Flared Hicks said:
Why not? Sarcasm, used well, can be a very powerful tool to have in your armoury. You could argue that it wasn't particularly good sarcasm, but to dismiss the use of sarcasm out of hand is tantamount to censorship.
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I love sarcasm, but you're right - that wasn't particularly good sarcasm. It was a failed attempt to make light of a humanitarian crisis.
 
Cockney Mackem said:
So what you're saying is, it's only acceptable to discuss the written policies of a political party, not how it communicates on the issues?
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No and you know that! If you think its acceptable to have a go with this picture on a false premise (and you know it is!) about a political party then you are as f***ing stupid as the OP. Is ths what its come to now on here support a political view means you support the death of children un f***ing real!
Im as disgusted as anyone with whats happening but because i want controls on immigration and not as you rightly know (because you arent a dribbling idiot) against immigration my political viewpoint is somehow seen as supporting the death of children? Well you and the OP can fuck right off. Or you can say as you should the OP was completely over the top and you may keep some self respect.
 
Wierd Valley Mackem said:
No and you know that! If you think its acceptable to have a go with this picture on a false premise (and you know it is!) about a political party then you are as f***ing stupid as the OP. Is ths what its come to now on here support a political view means you support the death of children un f***ing real!
Im as disgusted as anyone with whats happening but because i want controls on immigration and not as you rightly know (because you arent a dribbling idiot) against immigration my political viewpoint is somehow seen as supporting the death of children? Well you and the OP can fuck right off. Or you can say as you should the OP was completely over the top and you may keep some self respect.
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With all due respect (and I can see this has upset you) I don't think the OP is arguing that UKIP is advocating the death of children. I believe he is arguing that UKIP has been guilty of talking about immigration in negative terms, characterising migrants and refugees as a threat and the cause of decline, decay and bad things happening and at times exaggerating their impact on British life. As such this has made people think only about keeping the current groups of migrants and refugees out, and thinking of them in terms of what havoc they will wreak if we let them in, and not about people needing our help. So really he's accusing UKIP of only thinking of migrants and refugees as a threat and a reason why we should close our borders and of forgetting that these are human beings, some of whom are in great distress, and of undermining the humanitarian side of the issue.

I'm not necessarily arguing against the view that the use of the photo is over the top. But I do think that you are sort of defending UKIP against accusations that haven't been made, and that if you are going to defend UKIP it should be on the public statements UKIP has made about migrants and refugees. By all means disregard what fringe members have said which UKIP high command has disavowed. But you'd still have to focus on what say Farage and his official representatives have said in debates and approved for billboard ads etc. What their policies are is only part of the picture at best.
 
Cockney Mackem said:
With all due respect (and I can see this has upset you) I don't think the OP is arguing that UKIP is advocating the death of children. I believe he is arguing that UKIP has been guilty of talking about immigration in negative terms, characterising migrants and refugees as a threat and the cause of decline, decay and bad things happening and at times exaggerating their impact on British life. As such this has made people think only about keeping the current groups of migrants and refugees out, and thinking of them in terms of what havoc they will wreak if we let them in, and not about people needing our help. So really he's accusing UKIP of only thinking of migrants and refugees as a threat and a reason why we should close our borders and of forgetting that these are human beings, some of whom are in great distress, and of undermining the humanitarian side of the issue.

I'm not necessarily arguing against the view that the use of the photo is over the top. But I do think that you are sort of defending UKIP against accusations that haven't been made, and that if you are going to defend UKIP it should be on the public statements UKIP has made about migrants and refugees. By all means disregard what fringe members have said which UKIP high command has disavowed. But you'd still have to focus on what say Farage and his official representatives have said in debates and approved for billboard ads etc. What their policies are is only part of the picture at best.
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The Tories and UKIP have absolutely nothing to defend themselves against with regards to comments on immigration and refugees.
 
The use of this image to score political points is quite frankly, sickening and distasteful. It's a tragic situation to witness, yet it is never right to throw pictures of dead children around to boot. When UKIP and other groups have used child sex abuse to score political points, they received a thorough round of disgust and condemnation. I don't see how this is any better.

This is a consequence of years of interventionism, imperialism and upheaval in the middle east. Western nations have over the 20th and 21st centuries created a crisis region right on our doorstep. I blame primarily America on this incidence, who are not interested in "peace" in Syria, they're interested in removing the Assad regime from power to build their own political order in the region, they were quite happy for ISIS to play a part in this little game until they became too powerful...

Let's mourn for this child, but let's not use his picture for pointscoring.
 
Flared Hicks said:
Why not? Sarcasm, used well, can be a very powerful tool to have in your armoury. You could argue that it wasn't particularly good sarcasm, but to dismiss the use of sarcasm out of hand is tantamount to censorship.
Click to expand...

Cockney Mackem said:
With all due respect (and I can see this has upset you) I don't think the OP is arguing that UKIP is advocating the death of children. I believe he is arguing that UKIP has been guilty of talking about immigration in negative terms, characterising migrants and refugees as a threat and the cause of decline, decay and bad things happening and at times exaggerating their impact on British life. As such this has made people think only about keeping the current groups of migrants and refugees out, and thinking of them in terms of what havoc they will wreak if we let them in, and not about people needing our help. So really he's accusing UKIP of only thinking of migrants and refugees as a threat and a reason why we should close our borders and of forgetting that these are human beings, some of whom are in great distress, and of undermining the humanitarian side of the issue.

I'm not necessarily arguing against the view that the use of the photo is over the top. But I do think that you are sort of defending UKIP against accusations that haven't been made, and that if you are going to defend UKIP it should be on the public statements UKIP has made about migrants and refugees. By all means disregard what fringe members have said which UKIP high command has disavowed. But you'd still have to focus on what say Farage and his official representatives have said in debates and approved for billboard ads etc. What their policies are is only part of the picture at best.
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in a nutshell your right.
No political party wants kids to die (none).

we've all seen the numbers of dead, we all know this is happening, this photo resonated with me as i have a lad the same age; and as such i tried to imagine
what kind of life this lad had, what desperate experiences drove his parents to put him/them into harms way.

this picture made me angry ... @Brexit called it vile (he called me vile for posting it)... it is vile, but its a reality check too.
in my anger i didnt check to see if somebody else posted it (schoolboy error) and didnt consider that this would upset people.

what im bothered about is that this is a shite situation and parties and organisation i named seem to want to let the situation persist or not acknowledge
these people have become a tool in to score points.... to act tough on all migrants (economic or otherwise)
the fact that its is something we should be trying to avoid.... intervening in, it in the case of Britain first the modus operandi is to scaremonger...
ukip and the tories are demonizing all migrants almost making all them out to be benefit/job stealing invaders.

im not daft enough to this we live in utopia, and all migrants have a sob story and should be given a blank cheque, but i think there are cases like this when our country looks impotent...
 
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MrOompapa said:
The use of this image to score political points is quite frankly, sickening and distasteful. It's a tragic situation to witness, yet it is never right to throw pictures of dead children around to boot. When UKIP and other groups have used child sex abuse to score political points, they received a thorough round of disgust and condemnation. I don't see how this is any better.

This is a consequence of years of interventionism, imperialism and upheaval in the middle east. Western nations have over the 20th and 21st centuries created a crisis region right on our doorstep. I blame primarily America on this incidence, who are not interested in "peace" in Syria, they're interested in removing the Assad regime from power to build their own political order in the region, they were quite happy for ISIS to play a part in this little game until they became too powerful...

Let's mourn for this child, but let's not use his picture for pointscoring.
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You don't look so clever when you're shown the cold hard effects of not allowing desperate refugees of a war safe passage.

Many of them are fleeing ISIS, an entity we were responsible for creating.
 
lurker said:
You don't look so clever when you're shown the cold hard effects of not allowing desperate refugees of a war safe passage.

Many of them are fleeing ISIS, an entity we were responsible for creating.
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Who's "we" in this context?

I must admit to not having read anything at all regarding refugees rather than migrants from UKIP. Any links would be appreciated.
 
RichD said:
I'm not condoning what's going on in that part of the world at all, but people can't blame that Child's death on the uk government or any government for that matter, That child should have been protected and that should have been done by a responsible adult
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You need to watch a documentary on what Isis are up to in Syria

Then you'll see why the parents were so desperate to get their child into a boat
 
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