deleted user 785
Striker
If they had the money and the lure of Premier League football they would attract very good players, as would Rangers.
Celtic
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Occam's Razor
Striker
The big problem that people who claim that the Old Firm would somehow be giants of the English game ignore is just how much the clubs have been big fish in an extremely tiny pond for almost their entire existence. The curious sectarian nature of Scotland's football support sees Celtic and Rangers pull in huge numbers of fans from outside Glasgow (on a far bigger scale, proportionally, than admittedly happens everywhere) and has pretty much guaranteed them silverware galore and European football every season (Rangers' current blip notwithstanding). It is almost 30 years since a team other than those two won the league, almost 60 years since neither of them won a trophy in a season.
Stick them in a league where they suddenly start losing more games than they win, where they go years without European football, where long-term mid-table mediocrity might be the best they can hope for and nobody knows what might happen to their support because it has never happened before. Especially given a suddenly competitive Scottish league, with a far better chance for the rest of the teams to win trophies, compete in Europe etc. The Old Firm joining the English League almost certainly won't happen for at least a generation but if it did it could potentially be suicidal for them.
C
Crayon
Guest
It's been in decline north of the border ever since the money men decided that the Old Firm was the place to be. Aberdeen, Dundee United, and to a lesser extent Hearts, all competed favourably with their Glaswegian counterparts. Title wins, cup wins, and long runs in Europe were the norm for two of those three.
By contrast, Celtic and Rangers, though still being Scotland's best supported clubs, were relying on derby games and visits from those three clubs to keep their gates up. When they weren't the opposition, and title hopes were slipping away, crowds dipped below five figures at both clubs.
Then the Souness revolution arrived, and from then on the money and media prestige went there, as did a number of English players, taken in by the hype of restoring a fallen giant. Celtic upped the ante in response. The other three sides simply didn't have the resources to compete. Soon after, albeit on a much smaller scale compared to England, tv money came into play, which widened the resource gap further.
Since then, long European forays have been few and far between. Standards slipped as the two-horse race nature of the league lowered interest. The only way for a Scot to win something in Scotland, so it seemed, was to join either Glasgow club. When they signed, though, they often found their spot taken by English or other European players.
The arse has slowly been ripped out of Scottish football for a number of decades. The game will endure because, no matter who is on the pitch, a Raith fan will turn out to watch their side regardless, as will an East Fife fan, St. Mirren, Elgin City, whoever. As for quality, though, it will never stand a chance. In fact, it was a miracle Scottish club football stayed as competitive as it was for so long.
By contrast, Celtic and Rangers, though still being Scotland's best supported clubs, were relying on derby games and visits from those three clubs to keep their gates up. When they weren't the opposition, and title hopes were slipping away, crowds dipped below five figures at both clubs.
Then the Souness revolution arrived, and from then on the money and media prestige went there, as did a number of English players, taken in by the hype of restoring a fallen giant. Celtic upped the ante in response. The other three sides simply didn't have the resources to compete. Soon after, albeit on a much smaller scale compared to England, tv money came into play, which widened the resource gap further.
Since then, long European forays have been few and far between. Standards slipped as the two-horse race nature of the league lowered interest. The only way for a Scot to win something in Scotland, so it seemed, was to join either Glasgow club. When they signed, though, they often found their spot taken by English or other European players.
The arse has slowly been ripped out of Scottish football for a number of decades. The game will endure because, no matter who is on the pitch, a Raith fan will turn out to watch their side regardless, as will an East Fife fan, St. Mirren, Elgin City, whoever. As for quality, though, it will never stand a chance. In fact, it was a miracle Scottish club football stayed as competitive as it was for so long.
scobbie
Midfield
As much as I hate to say it, Celtic and Rangers have far bigger fan bases than any of the clubs you mentioned, including us.
Tank
Winger
I think the point is, fan base guarantees nothing. Leeds fan base is much larger than a hell of a lot of clubs in the Premier, same with the Sheffield clubs. Villa is in the UKs second largest city after London - far bigger than Manchester or Liverpool
Occam's Razor
Striker
Stretching things a bit there, mind. The league title stayed out of the hands of the Old Firm for three consecutive seasons in the early 80s, the only time this has happened in the whole of the league's history. Aberdeen won two of those titles to go with the five Scottish cups, CWC and two league cups they won from 1982-1990, mainly Ferguson's legacy. Dundee Utd had won two league cups just prior to that, then won the other league title and nowt else though they did have a couple of remarkable European runs. Hearts, of course, didn't win anything at all. Meanwhile during that "barren" six-year period from Dundee Utd's first LC (1980) to Souness taking over at Rangers (1986) the Old Firm hoovered up 11 of Scotland's major trophies between them.
That period was a very short aberration in the Old Firm's dominance, and they were still pretty much dominant, rather than any long-term shifting of power.
There is also a problem with the Old Firm teams making the league totally lopsided. They ought to be aiming to have a league like the Scandinavians but instead they're just a Scifi Channel 9pm film version of the English Premier League
Tank
Winger
Its a real problem is Scotland. All the other clubs are at most, the third best supported team in their own town/city, with most choosing to support Celtic or Rangers.
I'm less offended by the Mags. I've never seen a Newcastle fan besmirch our war dead. Yes, come to think of it I dislike many of the Celtic fans more than I do Newcastle's.
geordiedean
Striker
Never seen one of us fly the Irish tri colour with the letters IRA emblazoned over it, or us singing pro IRA songs by the wolf tones
Celtic fans are always playing the suppressed victim and now you are seeing more and more Palestinian flags and support for the return of Las Malvinas.
They are truly scum of the earth
I absolutely detest that element of Celtic fans, and those who stand idly by and do fuck all about it. If the club went out of business and never returned I'd be a very happy man. I couldn't say the same about Newcastle.
Gucci Massive
Striker
While all Rangers fans are lovely jolly types who adore kittens and rainbows.
I was commenting on Celtic as that what this thread is about.
I f***ing despise Rangers and Celtic equally
The Warehouseman
Midfield
This defeat is payback for 'em arguing that it was ridiculous that they have to play three qualifying rounds just to get in the group stages because Scotland's co-efficient (or whatever it's called) is so low.
K
KarlM
Guest
Looks like they're having a good night again...
foggyballa
Midfield
They've plenty on this side of the Irish Sea who buy the occasional shirt or scarf and watch the odd game. As for going to games or making a conscious effort to watch their team regularly, then no, they're no bigger than us. Give either Rangers or Celtic several seasons of mid table football and/or relegation battles, along with making a cup final once a generation, those big gates would soon decline and "actual" support outside of Glasgow would be far below what we'd attract.
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