Do you think Short, Congerton and Poyet are on the right track?

Status
Not open for further replies.
DPTT said:
At the minute I cant think of one decent reason why I would think these are on the right track. Not saying sacking anyone is the right answer mind, but the club is and has been in a mess for a few years now.
Click to expand...

It has been a mess, so why are people expecting us to be suddenly amazing and winning loads of games a year later?

I'm answering the question: are we on the right track? And it is my belief that we are. Were we on the wrong track with MON? Yes. PDC/De Fanti? Yes. This track we're on now looks a lot better to me.
 


PeruzziWatch said:
It has been a mess, so why are people expecting us to be suddenly amazing and winning loads of games a year later?

I'm answering the question: are we on the right track? And it is my belief that we are. Were we on the wrong track with MON? Yes. PDC/De Fanti? Yes. This track we're on now looks a lot better to me.
Click to expand...
Dont think many people are expecting us to win loads of games mate, but what I would expect to see is improvements throughout the club which would suggest the club is heading in the right direction. All I hear at the moment is a load of hot air with the same style of football and the same excuses.
 
Broadly yeah. Progress is slow and stuttering. However, I firmly believe that the club needs to live within it's means, that we need to go down the Sporting Director route, that we need to build a recruitment system that is here for a number of years, that we need to introduce cutting edge analysis to our methods, that youth development is the single most important thing we can do as a club, that we need to establish a footballing identity that is based around ball retention and passing rather than being able to run more than the opposition. All of these things appear to be important to the club to a decent degree - probably more than they've ever been at any time I can remember.

Are we successful in delivering these things so far? Not particularly but at least we are identifying the right path forward for the long term success of the club. That we have to revolutionise how the club is run with the constant spectre of relegation looming above us is not conducive to rapid change. But I firmly believe that we need to go through this in order to perform better than we are today.
 
PeruzziWatch said:
It has been a mess, so why are people expecting us to be suddenly amazing and winning loads of games a year later?

I'm answering the question: are we on the right track? And it is my belief that we are. Were we on the wrong track with MON? Yes. PDC/De Fanti? Yes. This track we're on now looks a lot better to me.
Click to expand...

If we are on the right track as you seem to think would you say it's reasonable to suggest that we should progress this season over last season. Four criteria would be the players we've signed since last season, the points per game average and the goals per game average for and against.The quality of the players is subjective but I would suggest we have a worse set of players this season than we did last. The other three are factual....

Last season under Poyet in the PL......P 31....Pts 37....F 36....A 44.......That's an average of 1.1935 Pts per game, 1.161 goals for and 1.189 against.

This season under Poyet in the PL.....P 22....Pts 20....F 19.....A 33.......That's an average of 0.909 Pts per game, 0.8636 goals for and 1.5 against.

So.......worse on all the things you can measure and arguably worse on the one that is subjective.

The Cabbage said:
Broadly yeah. Progress is slow and stuttering. However, I firmly believe that the club needs to live within it's means, that we need to go down the Sporting Director route, that we need to build a recruitment system that is here for a number of years, that we need to introduce cutting edge analysis to our methods, that youth development is the single most important thing we can do as a club, that we need to establish a footballing identity that is based around ball retention and passing rather than being able to run more than the opposition. All of these things appear to be important to the club to a decent degree - probably more than they've ever been at any time I can remember.

Are we successful in delivering these things so far? Not particularly but at least we are identifying the right path forward for the long term success of the club. That we have to revolutionise how the club is run with the constant spectre of relegation looming above us is not conducive to rapid change. But I firmly believe that we need to go through this in order to perform better than we are today.
Click to expand...

Excellent post mate.....my only concern is whether we have the right people attempting this transformation.
 
Rik-Safc said:
The main things that worries me is we don't seem to have a club ethos. Going from Bruce to MON to Di Canio to Poyet we have from completely different managers, recruitment processes and playing styles. It would be good to pick one and stick to it no matter who the manager is. Swansea are a great example of this.
Click to expand...

At the first sign of trouble the fans turn. Not really an easy place to "stick to the plan".
 
The Cabbage said:
Broadly yeah. Progress is slow and stuttering. However, I firmly believe that the club needs to live within it's means, that we need to go down the Sporting Director route, that we need to build a recruitment system that is here for a number of years, that we need to introduce cutting edge analysis to our methods, that youth development is the single most important thing we can do as a club, that we need to establish a footballing identity that is based around ball retention and passing rather than being able to run more than the opposition. All of these things appear to be important to the club to a decent degree - probably more than they've ever been at any time I can remember.

Are we successful in delivering these things so far? Not particularly but at least we are identifying the right path forward for the long term success of the club. That we have to revolutionise how the club is run with the constant spectre of relegation looming above us is not conducive to rapid change. But I firmly believe that we need to go through this in order to perform better than we are today.
Click to expand...
You Sir are no cabbage
 
GUS is implementing the Chelsea and Tottenham philosophy into our club, its going to take a few seasons and a step up in player quality before we adapt, i think this has just started IMO. (With defoe & van aanholt coming in) gus is inexperienced at managing at prem level and has made mistakes but i think he has learned from them and is getting to grips with the standard of players we need to bring in. Eventually i think it will come right its just going to take time.
 
safcpauluk said:
GUS is implementing the Chelsea and Tottenham philosophy into our club, its going to take a few seasons and a step up in player quality before we adapt, i think this has just started IMO. (With defoe & van aanholt coming in) gus is inexperienced at managing at prem level and has made mistakes but i think he has learned from them and is getting to grips with the standard of players we need to bring in. Eventually i think it will come right its just going to take time.
Click to expand...

Chelsea and Spurs eh....
 
safcpauluk said:
GUS is implementing the Chelsea and Tottenham philosophy into our club, its going to take a few seasons and a step up in player quality before we adapt, i think this has just started IMO. (With defoe & van aanholt coming in) gus is inexperienced at managing at prem level and has made mistakes but i think he has learned from them and is getting to grips with the standard of players we need to bring in. Eventually i think it will come right its just going to take time.
Click to expand...
Chelsea & Tottenham have adapted their play to individual games and won as a result, theres no similarity between them and what Gus is doing.
Gus just plays the same tactic every week, and its a step in the right direction if we dont get beat
 
PeruzziWatch said:
The future also involves having a 32 year old Defoe who can score the goals to keep us up.

Would you rather we stuck with Altidore until he was 35?
Click to expand...

No. But that was never going to happen, he was always leaving in this window.

Defoe scored 11 goals in his last 2 full Premier League seasons. How many do you think he'll score in 2018/19?

You are off your rocker if you think the Defoe signing is a signal of Congerton's foresight.
 
We seem committed to the DoF model but have a Head Coach in charge who wants to be a Manager so there is one issue for starters. Longer term he's going to be moved on in favour of someone who buys into it.

Read a very interesting Gary Neville article at the weekend where he was describing his visit to Southampton. Can't remember every word but he was very impressed with their whole DoF model.

Clearly we are way behind them on the pitch, 8 goals in fact, but I'd be interested to know how far we are behind them in terms of mission control centre, planning and scouting.
 
PeruzziWatch said:
My point was that Poyet achieved 10 wins (and seven draws) over a season and that was enough to keep us up, PDC did not show any evidence that he was capable of this. And he had frozen out Cattermole and Bardsley, two players that proved to be important players over the season. We were heading towards an inevitable relegation under PDC. Poyet was (and still is) the right man for the job.



Plenty of things have influenced my thinking on this. I believe we are in a far healthier position right now than we have been in a while. The wins will come.
Click to expand...
Had more points wins and goals under MON, we are only f***ing 2 points better off from last season even after the disaster start. I cant see how we are in a healthier position

UaeExile said:
At the first sign of trouble the fans turn. Not really an easy place to "stick to the plan".
Click to expand...
No worse than any other team
 
Last edited:
not spavin said:
No. But that was never going to happen, he was always leaving in this window.

Defoe scored 11 goals in his last 2 full Premier League seasons. How many do you think he'll score in 2018/19?

You are off your rocker if you think the Defoe signing is a signal of Congerton's foresight.
Click to expand...

But Gus rang him up and brought him in, anyway lets see how he gets on before we write him off after 2 games with no service.
 
not spavin said:
£3m worth of contribution? I admire your baseless optimism.
Click to expand...
you haven't even got the maths bit right either..........let alone writing off what he might do on the pitch during that time.........

By then a league position will be worth over £1 million a place so even your incorrect figure could easily be achieved by his "contribution" ...........
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lord Alfred said:
If we are on the right track as you seem to think would you say it's reasonable to suggest that we should progress this season over last season. Four criteria would be the players we've signed since last season, the points per game average and the goals per game average for and against.The quality of the players is subjective but I would suggest we have a worse set of players this season than we did last. The other three are factual....

Last season under Poyet in the PL......P 31....Pts 37....F 36....A 44.......That's an average of 1.1935 Pts per game, 1.161 goals for and 1.189 against.

This season under Poyet in the PL.....P 22....Pts 20....F 19.....A 33.......That's an average of 0.909 Pts per game, 0.8636 goals for and 1.5 against.
Click to expand...

I see where you are going with that and agree that the bold statistics are the comparable tool - but only at the end of the season.
 
PeruzziWatch said:
Yes, I fully believe we are on the right track. Compare this to the De Fanti/Di Canio or the MON era, I never felt we were really going anywhere under these people. Short's got it right with these two guys. They've got their heads screwed on and they're looking to the future.
Click to expand...


I wish I could get your gear. Keep doing what we are doing and we are only going one place, its not the planet your on either.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top