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pride of the north
Winger
Used to live in High Shincliffe and had a view of the line from my bedroom window. Can clearly remember a few goods trains going over it each day in the late 80s. Was an impressive site as they came over the bridge across the motorway. Might have a wander over that way next time I'm home. No track left but can probably get a nice walk along the old route.
The Lambton Worm
Striker
In the Invitation To Tender document for the ECML "bidders may choose to serve...........Huddersfield, Middlesbrough, Scarborough & Sunderland (via Newcastle)".
Page 9 item 2.1.2 of the following link. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/295084/icec-itt.pdf
D
Doctor Nowt
Guest
You can but all the ballast is still there the whole length of the route, so might be canny rattly!
B
blue sabre
Guest
Wouldn't necessarily be part of the ECML franchise. There is Northern, Cross country, transpennine. Grand Central have the monopoly on the Sunderland - London service, they wouldn't be too impressed if they lost trade on a route they built up from scratch.
It would be more suited to local and regional services with freight trains sent down there instead of the ECML so more passenger services can be scheduled in.
You've also got to consider that it'll take years to reopen the Leamside.
DonkeyScabs
Winger
The re-opening of Ferryhill Station has always been said to depend on the Leamside line.
Cludgie
Midfield
I noticed that but have never heard of a Fulwell platform. On the map it looks closer to Monkwearmouth than Seaburn station.
Vinny the Mackem
Winger
I thought about that, but I can't see why it would be called Fulwell when that station already had a name. That and it isn't in Fulwell! There used to be a line at the back of SoL station which branched off towards the docks south of Seaburn and ran near the back of the Fulwell end (you can still see the line it took on Google maps). I just wonder if it was a temporary station on football days only?
I was just looking at that on google earth. I suppose you'd expect to see old railway type buildings, but It's changed that much it's difficult to tell.
The Lambton Worm
Striker
No, but that's for the ECML franchise only. It isn't for any other TOC on those particular routes. Its only for services to/from Kings Cross on the routes shown in the appendices. Running a service from Sunderland to Edinburgh, for example, isn't included in the ECML franchise. That's completely separate. The fact that the DfT is offering the choice of extending the ECML network to Sunderland (via Newcastle) suggests that there's plenty of capacity between Sunderland & Newcastle. The only major problem is the fact that the Metro uses a different power supply than the ECML. This restricts which train sets could be used. Currently only the diesel HST's, or a more expensive electro-diesel train set, could use the line. The Hitachi Super Express will have an electro-diesel variant that will run on the Great Western Main Line beyond Swansea. So its possible the ECML will include some of them in the future. Don't forget, diesel ECML trains still use the Durham Coast line when there's track works between Newcastle & Northallerton.
Whilst GC are the current TOC from Sunderland to Kings Cross their main concern is passengers from York to Kings Cross and back. And that includes their services from elsewhere.
I would love to see whoever gets the ECML franchise run Inter City trains from/to Sunderland but I doubt it will ever happen. I already have the choice of three stations (Durham, Newcastle & Sunderland) to choose from when I want to travel on the ECML so personally I don't see the point.
Vinny the Mackem
Winger
Just had a look at the map. It actually runs to the back of the main stand/roker end corner.
If you look at the map again, follow the train line south from Seaburn station. You'll see a grassy track bearing off to the east at the back of Marina Avenue and continuing between Primrose Crescent and Laburnam Road. Once you spot that, it's easy to follow the old line. Runs to the marina at the other end.
I'd love to see the ECML run to Sunderland. CCould mean one train from Glasgow for me rather than at least one, sometime two changes!
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Well the bridge is still there where harbour view motors is. Which means the old garages opposite the roker park entrance could have originally been railway buildings I suppose.
Kevin Arnott's right boot
Striker
Utter madness that there isn't a direct line from Sunderland to Durham or Chester-Le-Street to link up with the ECML. Could knock potentially 30 minutes off a journey compared to going via Newcastle or the Durham Coast Line, or having to catch a bus to Durham
B
blue sabre
Guest
I may have misunderstood your point slightly sorry!
I'd guess that you'd be looking at 4 services a day from Sunderland via ECML tops, there really is a restricted number of paths for services. I'm sure @PinzaC55 probably knows a bit more about this one than me, but with the extra freight traffic coming out of Tyne Dock and the headway required between metro services there isn't much wriggle room.
The Hitachi trains will be fine running Intercity, but what about local services?
Usually you'd see older stock cascaded from other franchises and/or routes, you'd really limit your options going to 1500v DC as none of the electric regional trains could ever run on it. Pacers won't last forever.
PinzaC55
Striker
Glad you like my photos 
Couple of issues to make points on here.
1) Sunderland station was originally supposed to (for the Metro) have been restored to it's original layout of 4 platforms ( 2 "island platforms") with 2 Metro and 2 for heavy rail. I used to know the guy largely responsible for the signalling and he said they decided the current layout "for cheapness".
2) The Metro was originally intended to enter Sunderland through Washington and over the QEB with a station at North Hylton but the Council put the mockers on that by demolishing the rail deck of the QEB in 1982. It's an urban myth that the QEB couldn't take the weight of Metro trains - it was engineered to the max by a top bridge engineer and built by the company who built the Forth Bridge. Years ago I spoke to a guy who helped survey the QEB in the late 70's and he said it was perfectly OK.
3) The Metro terminates at South Hylton because going past there would involve Durham Council having to contribute to construction and running costs. If it was to go from Hylton to Washington via the Victoria Bridge this would rule out reopening the Leamside as an electrified line - the Metro is 1500 volts DC and normal heavy trains are 25,000 volts AC. That's the same reason why heavy rail electric trains cannot run via Sunderland while the Metro runs there.
The Hitachi trains will be 25Kv and incompatible with the Metro 1500v supply plus they will most likely be out of gauge (too long, too wide).
Couple of issues to make points on here.
1) Sunderland station was originally supposed to (for the Metro) have been restored to it's original layout of 4 platforms ( 2 "island platforms") with 2 Metro and 2 for heavy rail. I used to know the guy largely responsible for the signalling and he said they decided the current layout "for cheapness".
2) The Metro was originally intended to enter Sunderland through Washington and over the QEB with a station at North Hylton but the Council put the mockers on that by demolishing the rail deck of the QEB in 1982. It's an urban myth that the QEB couldn't take the weight of Metro trains - it was engineered to the max by a top bridge engineer and built by the company who built the Forth Bridge. Years ago I spoke to a guy who helped survey the QEB in the late 70's and he said it was perfectly OK.
3) The Metro terminates at South Hylton because going past there would involve Durham Council having to contribute to construction and running costs. If it was to go from Hylton to Washington via the Victoria Bridge this would rule out reopening the Leamside as an electrified line - the Metro is 1500 volts DC and normal heavy trains are 25,000 volts AC. That's the same reason why heavy rail electric trains cannot run via Sunderland while the Metro runs there.
The Hitachi trains will be 25Kv and incompatible with the Metro 1500v supply plus they will most likely be out of gauge (too long, too wide).
Vinny the Mackem
Winger
Does your extensive knowledge extend to shedding light on the "Fulwell football platform" mystery. I've been trying to find any other reference to this on and off for a couple of hours without any success!Glad you like my photos
Couple of issues to make points on here.
1) Sunderland station was originally supposed to (for the Metro) have been restored to it's original layout of 4 platforms ( 2 "island platforms") with 2 Metro and 2 for heavy rail. I used to know the guy largely responsible for the signalling and he said they decided the current layout "for cheapness".
2) The Metro was originally intended to enter Sunderland through Washington and over the QEB with a station at North Hylton but the Council put the mockers on that by demolishing the rail deck of the QEB in 1982. It's an urban myth that the QEB couldn't take the weight of Metro trains - it was engineered to the max by a top bridge engineer and built by the company who built the Forth Bridge. Years ago I spoke to a guy who helped survey the QEB in the late 70's and he said it was perfectly OK.
3) The Metro terminates at South Hylton because going past there would involve Durham Council having to contribute to construction and running costs. If it was to go from Hylton to Washington via the Victoria Bridge this would rule out reopening the Leamside as an electrified line - the Metro is 1500 volts DC and normal heavy trains are 25,000 volts AC. That's the same reason why heavy rail electric trains cannot run via Sunderland while the Metro runs there.
The Hitachi trains will be 25Kv and incompatible with the Metro 1500v supply plus they will most likely be out of gauge (too long, too wide).
PinzaC55
Striker
This is a great site for those interested http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/sunderland_central/index.shtml there are links to the other stations near the bottom of the page.
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/pinzac55/21757457
Plus if you look on this site this 1936 aerial view of Roker Park "just" shows the edge of where I think it should have been. If you register (free) you can zoom in super high detail http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw051130?search=sunderland&ref=80
On my picture here in 1980 I am standing on Seaburn road bridge looking south with the site of the North Dock branch going off to the left. As far as I know the football platform was past the end of the HST where the old footbridge went over the line and I think it only had a platform on the Sunderland bound track. I have never managed to find any photos of it in all these years. I reckon if somebody posted a request in the Echo somebody must have a shot ?
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/pinzac55/21757457
Plus if you look on this site this 1936 aerial view of Roker Park "just" shows the edge of where I think it should have been. If you register (free) you can zoom in super high detail http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw051130?search=sunderland&ref=80
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Vinny the Mackem
Winger
I've looked at the map again, and it doesn't look like it was on the branch to the marina, but on the line between Seaburn & Monkwearmouth. Only mention of Fulwell on that other website is a station in London! Hmmmm, I'm thinking this should go on the unexplained mysteries thread!
PinzaC55
Striker
I've looked at the map again, and it doesn't look like it was on the branch to the marina, but on the line between Seaburn & Monkwearmouth. Only mention of Fulwell on that other website is a station in London! Hmmmm, I'm thinking this should go on the unexplained mysteries thread!
I've put a query on a railway forum and I am sure someone will know. I don't live in Sunderland but a visit the Local Studies section of the library would be useful, as they hold copies of 25 inch to the mile OS maps there. When you think of all the thousands of people who used it there must be photos in loads of Sunderland attics.
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