Lord's Prayer Banned From Cinemas.

[JonMc]

Yes fair point but at least 'faith' in SAFC has some tangible proof i.e. an owner (God), a stadium (Heaven/Hell) and a team (angels/demons ) etc.

Even if the outcome is still as shite as religion.

Indeed it does and even the repeated empirical observance of what is on offer can't dissuade people which is kind of worse really.

I didn't watch the game this week but a mate was there. It cost him well over a hundred pounds and he got into kip at daft o'clock in the morning with only a couple of hours sleep before he started work. He said that the match was shite with both teams as poor as each other who couldn't pass water. His entire financial, physical and emotional investment for the evening depended on one mistake which gave him no more emotional release than if he'd watched it on the telly....but he was there and it was better than the previous game which he admitted was a total waste of time even though he watched one team play good football but unfortunately for him it was the wrong team. He had his lucky old scarf...a symptom of megalomania in that he can affect the outcome of events beyond his control.

To be honest I reckon that a man praying to his cooker to guide him through life is more of sound mind but it's all about opinions. It's also about the magnifying glass and which way you want to point it.

If it's worth it then it's worth it. Emotional investment and emotional return.

 

[Cockney Mackem]

Not sure what that has to do with the relevance of a cinema chain having a policy of not promoting any religion in it's cinemas.

A few points; if sky used it on their own program to advertise then it has nothing to do with the cinema chain or any other company.

They would be using it to advertise their own product not telling people to go and pray.

Well yes, they'd be cynically appropriating something that matters quite a lot to somebody else, showing scant regard to any of the values they hold dear, in a cynical cash in move to squeeze a few more quid out of an already jaded and pissed off public.

Which is advertising so it's perfectly OK

 

[HellsBells]

Just chucking this out here as an idea.

If say Sky Sports used The Lord's Prayer or bits of it for an advert for forthcoming football season, would there be a similar outcry?

Depends if Sky have a policy of not showing religious or political adverts.

 

[Keawyeds]

Depends if Sky have a policy of not showing religious or political adverts.

Pretty sure they do Political Broadcasts etc

 

[HellsBells]

Pretty sure they do Political Broadcasts etc

Exactly. They have a different policy to the ad agency. It's a different question.

 

[peachy]

Why not teach kids proper analytical and logical problem solving skills instead of indoctrinating them to beg to a pretend deity?

That would be far too sensible.

In all seriousness, don't you think the church, if they are going to spend money on an advert, would be better off spending their money on one that promotes good Christian values of helping and accepting people, rather than just telling them to (selfishly) pray?

People who want to pray will anyway, they don't need telling or showing. They surely don't need C of E (whatever) money wasting on expensive adverts. They'd be better off buying some food for the hungry at christmas time.

God, please help me to show hellsbells that praying might be good for her, help her to understand this prayer is for her and I want her to feel better about life, help her to use you when she feels lost and alone with no one to turn to.
Amen

I'm sure HB will manage just fine.

Exactly and this is the real issue I have with it. The cinema agency wouldn't of had the balls to ban an Islamic advert during their Ramadam if it had been done first.

That is just your opinion, it has no base in fact, does it?

Pleasure and excitement in believing in something which doesn't exist is fruitless unless you acknowledge that it doesn't exist. People can gain pleasure and excitement from Star Wars but if they believe it is real they are loopy.

I don't really mind what people believe, and to whom they pray. I hope they feel happy and gain something from it. However those beliefs should not be allowed to impinge on others enjoyment of life*. So please keep it to your self or your "church".
Loopy people can be great fun don't forget!

Edit : I am not impressed with brainwashing though so seeing children brainwashed by faith does impinge on others enjoyment of life - so keep faith for the over 18s.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

If it's worth it then it's worth it. Emotional investment and emotional return.

I think that applies to all of us to an extent but I see an inherent weakness. Are emotions not simply an extension of mind? The problem being that the emotion may simply reinforce a delusion of the mind resulting in a positive feedback loop and so the cycle continues.

 

[peachy]

What evidence do you have to support this assertion?
All theories that I have seen suggest there is a genetic component to belief.

Babies are born as non believers. Children born into Muslim families are likely to grow up Muslim. Ditto Hindu. Less so children born into Christian families as although they are likely to be brought up as Christian they are often given the freedom to think for themselves and be atheist/agnostic. So how is this genetic component working?

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Babies are born as non believers. Children born into Muslim families are likely to grow up Muslim. Ditto Hindu. Less so children born into Christian families as although they are likely to be brought up as Christian they are often given the freedom to think for themselves and be atheist/agnostic. So how is this genetic component working?

I think it is more accurate to say that babies are born as neither believers or non believers. They have not been subjected to mind at that point. So thy are beyond belief and non belief. What a Buddhist would call a state of dialectic emptiness. That's our true beginning.

 

[peachy]

I think it is more accurate to say that babies are born as neither believers or non believers. They have not been subjected to mind at that point. So thy are beyond belief and non belief. What a Buddhist would call a state of dialectic emptiness.

I can't argue with you Mercy.
When you are born you do not believe in anything as it is an impossibility to believe at that stage. So, rightly, you can't actually have a non-belief in something either. But we are being a tad pedantic aren't we.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

I can't argue with you Mercy.
When you are born you do not believe in anything as it is an impossibility to believe at that stage. So, rightly, you can't actually have a non-belief in something either. But we are being a tad pedantic aren't we.

Possibly pedantic but when people like Jesus say know the beginning and then you will know the end, he is clearly referring to a state of dialectic emptiness or no-mind. It's all figures of speech. The problem is when people take figures of speech to be literal.

It's interesting that with such a statement Jesus is rejecting all concepts of the mind from between the beginning and the end.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

And yet some people are prepared to insult others on
the same premise. Do you see where I'm coming from yet? Like for like.

It's not the same though. I love watching Sunderland. I know they are shite. I have no evidence to believe there is an invisible protector in the sky who cares how I behave.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

It's not the same though. I love watching Sunderland. I know they are shite. I have no evidence to believe there is an invisible protector in the sky who cares how I behave.

Ellis Short mate.

Oh ye of little faith.

 

[JonMc]

It's not the same though. I love watching Sunderland. I know they are shite. I have no evidence to believe there is an invisible protector in the sky who cares how I behave.

Really? If you went on tour with your favourite pop/rock band and they constantly took to the stage, refusing or unable to perform properly, vocals and guitars out of tune and unable to play the simplest of passages of their music - would you really spend more money on tickets to see them on their next tour if the reviews are exactly the same? Really? Same with a favourite film director if he was reproducing rubbish after rubbish? You would 'love' that? I doubt it, I really do. No. You would be called an idiot at the very least and your 'loyalty' to the artist would be questioned as being obsessional to the point of insanity. You'd be defined as a masochist, someone who gains a perverse pleasure out of inflicting pain on himself. Nuts.

I think that applies to all of us to an extent but I see an inherent weakness. Are emotions not simply an extension of mind? The problem being that the emotion may simply reinforce a delusion of the mind resulting in a positive feedback loop and so the cycle continues.

It applies to me, certainly. I see it in myself and I agree that it's an inherent weakness and your analysis of the topic as usual, does you credit.

 

[TwasOnTheFifthOfMay]

Thing is you would be surprised how many folk have that attitude when things are all and well, but then suddenly change their views when life turns really bad and you are given the news that everyone dreads to hear from the doctor.... or you are lying on your death bed breathing the last few gulps of air.

I would? Give us the numbers then.

 

[Deleted User 11453]

Really? If you went on tour with your favourite pop/rock band and they constantly took to the stage, refusing or unable to perform properly, vocals and guitars out of tune and unable to play the simplest of passages of their music - would you really spend more money on tickets to see them on their next tour if the reviews are exactly the same? Really? Same with a favourite film director if he was reproducing rubbish after rubbish? You would 'love' that? I doubt it, I really do. No. You would be called an idiot at the very least and your 'loyalty' to the artist would be questioned as being obsessional to the point of insanity. You'd be defined as a masochist, someone who gains a perverse pleasure out of inflicting pain on himself. Nuts.

.....

As an evolutionist I believe in survival of the fittest so the band would go belly up if they didn't have any talent.

Again I don't think that these analogies are working. Football is basically a sport that has become massively commercialised but it's there for enjoyment more than worship. If someone is weak enough to need to use it as an emotional crutch then it's a personal fault, similar to drug dependency or following an organised mass religion.

Does someone 'love' the Church of England? Or are they taught to 'love' God/Jesus?

 

[Kent_Mackem]

Really? If you went on tour with your favourite pop/rock band and they constantly took to the stage, refusing or unable to perform properly, vocals and guitars out of tune and unable to play the simplest of passages of their music - would you really spend more money on tickets to see them on their next tour if the reviews are exactly the same? Really? Same with a favourite film director if he was reproducing rubbish after rubbish? You would 'love' that? I doubt it, I really do. No. You would be called an idiot at the very least and your 'loyalty' to the artist would be questioned as being obsessional to the point of insanity. You'd be defined as a masochist, someone who gains a perverse pleasure out of inflicting pain on himself. Nuts.

I appreciate the point you are trying to make but I suspect you are mixing up "hope" with "delusion" and "faith".

I don't enjoy watching us lose but Instill enjoy going to the match whatever the result. Obviously I want us to win and I hope that we do but I am realistic enough to know that the majority of matches I attend will end in failure. I can still enjoy watching the odd unexpected win, even better when it usually comes against Newcastle.

The point about the rock band isn't quite accurate. They aren't competing with anybody but themselves. At a rock concert I am paying money to be entertained and you're right, Inwon't go back again if they're shite the first time.

With football I'm paying money to watch my team. I can also admire and enjoy watching the opposition play footy regardless of how shit we are. Roy Keane and Ronaldo at SOL are examples. I feel privileged to have been there even though we lost. There is also the excitement that we may one day win a match like we did at Palace on Monday, similar to buying a lottery ticket and probably with the same odds!

 

[JonMc]

As an evolutionist I believe in survival of the fittest so the band would go belly up if they didn't have any talent.

Again I don't think that these analogies are working. Football is basically a sport that has become massively commercialised but it's there for enjoyment more than worship. If someone is weak enough to need to use it as an emotional crutch then it's a personal fault, similar to drug dependency or following an organised mass religion.

Does someone 'love' the Church of England? Or are they taught to 'love' God/Jesus?

And people continue to turn up out of 'worship' under the delusion that the next week will somehow be an improvement. As an evolutionist why don't football clubs go belly up? My in-laws follow York City. Why do people continue to watch them?

 

[PinzaC55]

I would? Give us the numbers then.

My bet is the reply will include " 99% ".

And people continue to turn up out of 'worship' under the delusion that the next week will somehow be an improvement. As an evolutionist why don't football clubs go belly up? My in-laws follow York City. Why do people continue to watch them?

What would a radio wave look like if it was made of cheese ?

 

[JonMc]

I appreciate the point you are trying to make but I suspect you are mixing up "hope" with "delusion" and "faith".

I don't enjoy watching us lose but Instill enjoy going to the match whatever the result. Obviously I want us to win and I hope that we do but I am realistic enough to know that the majority of matches I attend will end in failure. I can still enjoy watching the odd unexpected win, even better when it usually comes against Newcastle.

The point about the rock band isn't quite accurate. They aren't competing with anybody but themselves. At a rock concert I am paying money to be entertained and you're right, Inwon't go back again if they're shite the first time.

With football I'm paying money to watch my team. I can also admire and enjoy watching the opposition play footy regardless of how shit we are. Roy Keane and Ronaldo at SOL are examples. I feel privileged to have been there even though we lost. There is also the excitement that we may one day win a match like we did at Palace on Monday, similar to buying a lottery ticket and probably with the same odds!

So football is more than entertainment the?

I'm not comparing religion with football purely like-for-like although there are comparisons to be drawn - in fact it was once an accepted statement of pride in this area that football was akin to religion. For these purposes I'm comparing foolishness with foolishness, idiocy with idiocy and an emotionally blind adherence to the delusional with with the same.

That's what he said?

Does someone 'love' the Church of England? Or are they taught to 'love' God/Jesus?

Taught. 'New Sunderland fan born this week'.