Lord's Prayer Banned From Cinemas.

[Narraback]

Really? If you went on tour with your favourite pop/rock band and they constantly took to the stage, refusing or unable to perform properly, vocals and guitars out of tune and unable to play the simplest of passages of their music - would you really spend more money on tickets to see them on their next tour if the reviews are exactly the same? Really? Same with a favourite film director if he was reproducing rubbish after rubbish? You would 'love' that? I doubt it, I really do. No. You would be called an idiot at the very least and your 'loyalty' to the artist would be questioned as being obsessional to the point of insanity. You'd be defined as a masochist, someone who gains a perverse pleasure out of inflicting pain on himself. Nuts.

I support Sunderland. I always have and probably always will. If I look at it rationally I know it's f***ing dumb, I admit it. The problem is most religious people not only do not admit what they believe is dumb, they don't look at it rationally. Even the few who's working lives are based on reason, sceptisism and evidence (scientists) leave such sense at the doors of their churches, mosques etc.

 

[Deleted User 11453]

And people continue to turn up out of 'worship' under the delusion that the next week will somehow be an improvement. As an evolutionist why don't football clubs go belly up? My in-laws follow York City. Why do people continue to watch them?

Some do, you knew that. But enough people want to watch football and the same clubs are usually resurrected (excuse the pun) in another form but fundamentally the same entity.

Your in-laws continue to watch York City for a number of reasons e.g. they enjoy the sport, they like to be involved in the community, they are surrounded by like-minded people with a common purpose and meet new people, they can travel and see new places etc.

There are similarities with why people are involved with religion (in bold) but again there are a lot of differences.

To add to the point about supporting a club such as SAFC we can also physically prove the evolution of the club and if it's well ran we can see a future plan and a purpose. You also have a big choice in how you follow the club and aren't constrained by dogma and written rules.

I'm not quite sure what you or I are trying to prove now, however I still don't think that your examples are explaining the deficiencies of the mainstream religions.

 

[JonMc]

To add to the point about supporting a club such as SAFC we can also physically prove the evolution of the club and if it's well ran we can see a future plan and a purpose. You also have a big choice in how you follow the club and aren't constrained by dogma and written rules.

I'm not quite sure what you or I are trying to prove now, however I still don't think that your examples are explaining the deficiencies of the mainstream religions.

Unless your kids choose to support Newcastle.

I'm an atheist - I'm not trying to defend those deficiencies. I'm trying to explain to a defensive K_M why he's arrogant in calling out people who follow a simple belief in God as psychotic, stupid or idiotic when the culturally reproduced practice that he engages in can be the focus of the same accusations. And I'm seeing people get uncomfortable and defensive when it's pointed out to them. And why not engage in a form of community spirit that doesn't involve such stupidity - a charge often aimed at theists.

I support Sunderland. I always have and probably always will. If I look at it rationally I know it's f***ing dumb, I admit it. The problem is most religious people not only do not admit what they believe is dumb, they don't look at it rationally. Even the few who's working lives are based on reason, sceptisism and evidence (scientists) leave such sense at the doors of their churches, mosques etc.

Many do and they still believe and many football fans also refuse to look at themselves rationally as you do and admit that their actions are in fact, as thick as pig shit. So in effect dumb is as dumb does.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

Unless your kids choose to support Newcastle.

I'm an atheist - I'm not trying to defend those deficiencies. I'm trying to explain to a defensive K_M why he's arrogant in calling out people who follow a simple belief in God as psychotic, stupid or idiotic when the culturally reproduced practice that he engages in can be the focus of the same accusations. And I'm seeing people get uncomfortable and defensive when it's pointed out to them. And why not engage in a form of community spirit that doesn't involve such stupidity - a charge often aimed at theists.




Many do and they still believe and many football fans also refuse to look at themselves rationally as you do and admit that their actions are in fact, as thick as pig shit. So in effect dumb is as dumb does.

I'm not uncomfortable about it old boy, I just think you're wrong on this one.

 

[JonMc]

I'm not uncomfortable about it old boy, I just think you're wrong on this one.

You obviously are though just as you obviously do 'care' about religion despite the fact that you deny it endlessly every time you comment on the topic.

You engage in a group psychosis or even hysteria (if you like) which is culturally reproduced an reinforced constantly which allows you to defend the fact that you pay good money and physical and emotional effort in engaging in a pastime that most times you don't enjoy...other than in some vague sense of community that you could replicate anywhere else. And you were brainwashed into doing it from a very early age.

Admit it and feel better about yourself.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

You obviously are though just as you obviously do 'care' about religion despite the fact that you deny it endlessly every time you comment on the topic.

You engage in a group psychosis or even hysteria (if you like) which is culturally reproduced an reinforced constantly which allows you to defend the fact that you pay good money and physical and emotional effort in engaging in a pastime that most times you don't enjoy...other than in some vague sense of community that you could replicate anywhere else. And you were brainwashed into doing it from a very early age.

Admit it and feel better about yourself.

I really don't. I'm sorry for not making it clearer for you in my last message.

The brainwashed bit is interesting too. I see a similarity between football and religion in that they are evidently inherited down families. I didn't start following Sunderland until I was 15. The school Inwent to was 50:50 Lads:Mags (it was in Sacriston and 5 years prior to football being invented at SJP in 1992). I happened to have a group of mates who mostly supported Sunderland so I went along to Roker Park with them one Saturday for the craic. My dad got me into cricket, he's not into football.

That said, I do see that footballing allegiances are usually inherited.

 

[JonMc]

I really don't. I'm sorry for not making it clearer for you in my last message.

The brainwashed bit is interesting too. I see a similarity between football and religion in that they are evidently inherited down families. I didn't start following Sunderland until I was 15. The school Inwent to was 50:50 Lads:Mags (it was in Sacriston and 5 years prior to football being invented at SJP in 1992). I happened to have a group of mates who mostly supported Sunderland so I went along to Roker Park with them one Saturday for the craic. My dad got me into cricket, he's not into football.

That said, I do see that footballing allegiances are usually inherited.

You are. But I can understand why you feel that way. No one enjoys being charged with hysteria and hysteria is a major component of supporting a football team - just have a glance at PF on any given Saturday evening.

That's not unusual in religion. Two of my CofE mates converted to Catholicism in their twenties.

 

[Parkmaverick]

Ooh, Lady Thee, you thauthy minxth

When he did TOTP - At thix here's thugs with thethelia.

 

[the flying graysons]

You h

Babies are born as non believers. Children born into Muslim families are likely to grow up Muslim. Ditto Hindu. Less so children born into Christian families as although they are likely to be brought up as Christian they are often given the freedom to think for themselves and be atheist/agnostic. So how is this genetic component working?

you have just answered your own question. Children are born with a predisposition to believe in religon.
You. Might as well say babies are born with genetically controlled disposition towards sexuality as they are born non believers.
You and @Kent_Mackem think believing in god is a choice and one that has not been exposed to natural selection?

 

[Kent_Mackem]

You are. But I can understand why you feel that way. No one enjoys being charged with hysteria and hysteria is a major component of supporting a football team - just have a glance at PF on any given Saturday evening.

That's not unusual in religion. Two of my CofE mates converted to Catholicism in their twenties.

You've never been famous on here for admitting when you're wrong. You also seemed upset that I repeated myself so I'll leave it there. Maybe have a quiet re-read of my last two posts though. Over to you for your last word...

 

[JonMc]

You've never been famous on here for admitting when you're wrong. You also seemed upset that I repeated myself so I'll leave it there. Maybe have a quiet re-read of my last two posts though. Over to you for your last word...

I'm right. But my commenting on someone about their complex series of actions and emotions and dismissing them simplistically as being psychological, hysterical, foolish and just plain idiotic could never be mistaken as my arrogance, now could it?

 

[Lewberry pie]

That would be far too sensible.


People who want to pray will anyway, they don't need telling or showing. They surely don't need C of E (whatever) money wasting on expensive adverts. They'd be better off buying some food for the hungry at christmas time.

I'm sure HB will manage just fine.


That is just your opinion, it has no base in fact, does it?

I don't really mind what people believe, and to whom they pray. I hope they feel happy and gain something from it. However those beliefs should not be allowed to impinge on others enjoyment of life*. So please keep it to your self or your "church".
Loopy people can be great fun don't forget!

Edit : I am not impressed with brainwashing though so seeing children brainwashed by faith does impinge on others enjoyment of life - so keep faith for the over 18s.

I'm sure she will perhaps I'll say a prayer for you next so you understand the point I was trying to make

So you weren't persuaded by your parents that YHWH existed ? Or you didn't decide for yourself ? Please let me know how you came to your current set of beliefs then.



Holy crap I don't think I would personally be that honest. Maybe tell them she auditioned for the Walking Dead but got turned down.



TBF when I was a kid and I was in the bathroom my parents used to shout up the stairs "God are you still in there ?" which made me wonder. Mainly why god spent so much time in the netty.



Almost as though various kings decided one particular church was a better way to control the masses ?

My parents didn't Lol, its not relevant how or why I came to the conclusion I did, that's not what we're discussing unless you've conceded the point that using your conclusion as evidence for your conclusion of course we can discuss things further

 

[PinzaC55]

Some do, you knew that. But enough people want to watch football and the same clubs are usually resurrected (excuse the pun) in another form but fundamentally the same entity.

Your in-laws continue to watch York City for a number of reasons e.g. they enjoy the sport, they like to be involved in the community, they are surrounded by like-minded people with a common purpose and meet new people, they can travel and see new places etc.

There are similarities with why people are involved with religion (in bold) but again there are a lot of differences.

To add to the point about supporting a club such as SAFC we can also physically prove the evolution of the club and if it's well ran we can see a future plan and a purpose. You also have a big choice in how you follow the club and aren't constrained by dogma and written rules.

I'm not quite sure what you or I are trying to prove now, however I still don't think that your examples are explaining the deficiencies of the mainstream religions.

JonMc will continue this argument till one of you dies, you know that ?

I'm sure she will perhaps I'll say a prayer for you next so you understand the point I was trying to make


My parents didn't Lol, its not relevant how or why I came to the conclusion I did, that's not what we're discussing unless you've conceded the point that using your conclusion as evidence for your conclusion of course we can discuss things further

And your answer, young Lewberry , is as predictable as it is disappointing. You have done this before on numerous occasions since you are trying to duck the argument in order to win. It impresses nobody and everybody and others will take note of it.
I couldn't be so dishonest even though I am a mere godless heathen.

 

[JJH]

I would? Give us the numbers then.

99 %

I'm right. But my commenting on someone about their complex series of actions and emotions and dismissing them simplistically as being psychological, hysterical, foolish and just plain idiotic could never be mistaken as my arrogance, now could it?

Game set and match

 

[the flying graysons]

You also have a big choice in how you follow the club and aren't constrained by dogma and written rules.

I'm not quite sure what you or I are trying to prove now, however I still don't think that your examples are explaining the deficiencies of the mainstream religions.

Try posting on here that you have broken a comandment on a Saturday :
Thou shalt not leave early
Thou shalt not watch the game on TV if though livest in sunderland.
Thou shalt not suggest that the chosen one was a little rat faced mercenary

Well I don't think praying will physically save anyone unfortunately.

e.

So you agree there is no Intervensionist god and it is just a made up comfort blanket?
Pity I was just going to sack off the doctor

 

[Kent_Mackem]

Game set and match

Hahah you think so? FFS.
He is obviously a canny lad judging by his posts on here but there's no point in arguing with him for two reasons, firstly he will never admit he is wrong (he is renowned for it on here) and secondly he doesn't appear to read answers to his posts.

Anyway, you never answered the Superman question....

 

[JJH]

Hahah you think so? FFS.
He is obviously a canny lad judging by his posts on here but there's no point in arguing with him for two reasons, firstly he will never admit he is wrong (he is renowned for it on here) and secondly he doesn't appear to read answers to his posts.

Anyway, you never answered the Superman question....

Sorry I missed the original question so had to gan back and look.
I would know you were lying as I'm Superman, you cant prove I'm not and if I wasn't going to have a nice long shit and a glass of wine I would be flying down South to find you.
The thread has gone off down the religious route and been canny reading tnf, however my original problem with the cinema not showing the advert is more to do with how we as a nation seem to be panicking and pandering to Islam and ever so gradually loosing little bits of our Britishness.
Unlike some on here I see it as possibly the greatest threat to us in the not too distant future.

 

[PinzaC55]

Sorry I missed the original question so had to gan back and look.
I would know you were lying as I'm Superman, you cant prove I'm not and if I wasn't going to have a nice long shit and a glass of wine I would be flying down South to find you.
The thread has gone off down the religious route and been canny reading tnf, however my original problem with the cinema not showing the advert is more to do with how we as a nation seem to be panicking and pandering to Islam and ever so gradually loosing little bits of our Britishness.
Unlike some on here I see it as possibly the greatest threat to us in the not too distant future.

The OP made no mention of Islam in regards to the cinema. Give it up.

 

[Lewberry pie]

Try posting on here that you have broken a comandment on a Saturday :
Thou shalt not leave early
Thou shalt not watch the game on TV if though livest in sunderland.
Thou shalt not suggest that the chosen one was a little rat faced mercenary


So you agree there is no Intervensionist god and it is just a made up comfort blanket?
Pity I was just going to sack off the doctor

No I don't agree, I just don't believe God will stop you getting ill

JonMc will continue this argument till one of you dies, you know that ?



And your answer, young Lewberry , is as predictable as it is disappointing. You have done this before on numerous occasions since you are trying to duck the argument in order to win. It impresses nobody and everybody and others will take note of it.
I couldn't be so dishonest even though I am a mere godless heathen.

I haven't tried to win the argument I'm not interested in point scoring, I don't do things to impress people.

I take it you accept using your conclusion as evidence for your conclusion is wrong then.

 

[JonMc]

Hahah you think so? FFS.
He is obviously a canny lad judging by his posts on here but there's no point in arguing with him for two reasons, firstly he will never admit he is wrong (he is renowned for it on here) and secondly he doesn't appear to read answers to his posts.

Anyway, you never answered the Superman question....

Ahhh K_M. I compromised from the beginning. I'm more than willing to admit that religion is psychotic and delusional and stupid as a concept but you won't give me that under any other circumstances my making 300 mile round trips to spend hours feeling miserable in the rain, ruining entire weekends under the delusion that this time things will be different...this time... - is even in the same ballpark, so to speak. And it is. It's not what I would consider as being 'normal behaviour'. I've done both!

I'm a speck that lives on a speck that functions on insanity and I enjoy laughing at all of it and my quite serious point is that I can't laugh at anyone without turning that same scrutiny onto myself because I don't think that it's healthy. Life is too serious not to laugh at and that has to include me.

It doesn't matter what people 'believe' or 'believe in'. It's how those beliefs turn into actions which are the problem and the only way of doing that successfully is letting go and seeing things as they really are. Stupid is as stupid does.