I don't agree that McCartney was ever a 6m player regardless of the times. Just have to agree to differ in this one.You know what I'm talking about.£6m was pretty much standard fare at the time. McCartney looked a class above at Championship level and went onto play really well at West Ham. That justified a £6m fee at the time, even if his performances on coming back were garbage.
We needed a lot of players, in 06/07 and in 07/08. In 08/09 we needed to add to the ones in 07/08. There was a bit of a scattergun approach going on, but we were trying to build quickly as Keane basically started with nothing. You see I can understand some was wasted due to the nature of the approach, but with you not once does the importance of momentum or guaranteeing staying up, rather than taking chances even enter your head.
David Nugent was on promotion and a Championship player looking to step up. That shows the problems though, if we're competing for the best at that level and get out done on some of them like Nugent. Pompey had also been up three seasons at that point and like us also had money to spend. You're either very foolish or naive if you think that wouldn't be a factor.
We had cash to inject, but obviously we weren't paying massive wages in context to rest of the league. What you never seem to understand is that whilst you will get some good players, a club like us would have to offer a massive increase on what he was going to get elsewhere to get a player to take a chance on coming here, given the reputation we had and to an extent still do and the amount of times we got turned down on Baines, Forlan, Defoe and whoever else would suggest we weren't able to do so.
Oh and players do turn down higher offers, like Bent did at West Ham United, like Baines hinted at here. Like I've said countless times, long gone are the days Blackburn, Newcastle or Boro could offer 25k, 30k or 40k for a top player and they'd be getting 10 to 15k more than Man Utd would pay them. You're living in a bygone age, clubs like Citeh and Chelsea crazy investment and the CL has put an end to it.
I think he was competent, but limited. Limited also by what he had at his disposal. Great start here, Everton found out how to play our workman like high pressure counter attack game a couple of times and others followed and the arse dropped out of it, confidence dropped and he had no faith in the players, resulting in being very negative. When it came to signings he made a couple of big ones who were only a marginal success (debatable), made a few poor ones and relied too heavily on players from Bruce's last window. I liked the man very much, but I do think he's a bit of a dinosaur.
I could go through most and say many contributed well enough in areas, barring only a handful - your Halford's, Prica, McShane, Healy and a few more. You could certainly say not many gave a long term return, but many were dismissed quickly as we tried to push on. Most would regard Chopra as a failure, he was certainly overpriced, but the guy scored something like 7 or 8 key league goals in 38 games, mostly as a wideman which wasn't his position. He was then moved back to Cardiff for an apparent £4m. Even if that was just what we owed them, short term that's a good return. Andy Reid was another, a poor long term signing (though he was underused first season when in form under Bruce) but his signing was intergral at the point it came.
It was paper talk and talk among fans at time it happened. Think you should check your facts....Smith was sacked at the end of December. In January we won all three league games beating Millwall 6-2 in one and we were 11th in the table 6 points off the play offs. In February we won one, drew two and lost two as we progressed in the Cup. As our form began to tail off more, even in mid March we were in 14th place but only 8 points off a play off place, with two games in hand over a few clubs above us and due to the cup run it was certainly being talked about, but our form just got worse, especially running into April where we had a fixture pile up.
Despite our form totally dropping off and ending up in 18th, we were never in any danger. So no, that point wasn't anything close to being as bad as you're making out.
It was a sequence of event that made it so bad, plus it was a second lowest points total in two seasons, that led to just as much apathy and lost belief. There wasn't the squad left to use either, Reid arguably had a better squad when he arrived as mad as it sounds Alnwick, Ward, Wright, Caldwell, Elliott, Clarke, Cunningham, Collins, Murphy, Whitehead, Elliot, Arnau, Moquet, Nos, Brown, Lawrence ffs. We had managers and players turning us down and an horrendous start, with finished players coming in and Quinn in charge. For you to actually say you fancied to head in the opposite direction at the time, when no one else could see it, especially given games like the Southend one, you know one of the clubs you used in an example of how bad it was in the nineties and defeats to Plymouth and Brum at home, it could have been a very sorry state of affairs and needed something a little bit different to turn it around.
Nope, the boom was a combintation of factors, Premiership and new improved grounds, which attracted new customers. That period is your most disillusioned though, possibly because of age and shattered expectations. For me whose first game was Barnsley in 87 leading to the play offs it wasn't too far removed from what we were used to. The stadium was on the cards long before Reid was coming in though, Nissan and Gatehead council were the reasons we weren't already building one.,
I could just as easily say had we got the Keane appointment wrong at that time, we could have been going the opposite way and done what Sheff Wed, Leeds and countless others have too, despite spending money after relegation.
Bullshit
The last ten pages or so show otherwise, you can't fool people with feint praise then take it away and expect them to believe balance you know, some of us are too long in the tooth for it.
Depends on what grounds he 'walked' I suppose. Not always black and white is it.
I understood his initial splurge and given how little time he had to put things in place he done well in assembling a side to go up. My issue with his business came once we went up and I don't think he needed to gamble as much given our resources. Bringing in players like Healy who cost 2 million and then basically just cost us a wage was typical of his devil may care approach to the market.
The only factor that matters to a player is a wage when it comes to the players we were competing for. Neither Nugent,baines or forlan will have signed for their respective clubs on less than what we were offering. Perhaps if Keane had adopted a quality over quantity approach our wage budget would have been greater.
I'm not aware of Bent turning down a better offer from West Ham but I am aware of Bent accepting a sideways career move in order to boost his purse stings as I'm aware of Gyan doing the same and ashley cole and I could go on. I have never once claimed we had the clout to compete with the big big clubs but as far as newly promoted sides go Keanes budget was massive.
Andy Reid integral? He played one lovely ball to murphy when just on as sub on debut and that's about it. Way to slow and immobile to be an effective top flight player. Nice left peg mind. Chopra wasn't a good signing however you dress it up.
I thought the millwall game was December so I was a month out which given it's over twenty year ago isn't bad. I'm not using google for my research perry . My points still stand in regards to a play off push though. It really was never on.
We finished 18th which was still a million mile away from the promised land which was my point..
Reid had a better squad? A side that had been at the bottom end of 2nd tier for 4 seasons and you say that was better than a squad which consisted of players like whitehead,Lawrence,Collins,Elliott and brown who'd all been good enough to win that league 15 month before Keane walked through the door? Come on man!
We'd lost at home to the southends, brentfords and teams of that nature over a period of time. There's an argument to suggest that what went on before Keane arrived was the exception rather than the rule.
That period is probably the one I'm most informed on. As ive said I'm not using any references other than memory for this whilst you are coming across as a bit revisionist. My first game was actually before yours. Brighton home beginning of that season. I was also at your first game too. Roger Wylde returning to haunt us and a young Steve Agnew I believe in their midfield. As you'll now be aware I was used to nothing but struggle too. It shows just how we were drifting into obscurity before reids intervention and for you to pass off a period in which we nearly dropped into third tier again as 'not as bad as I'm making out' I find absurd. We were obviously looking to move but the Nissan move had fallen through and if we had dropped at that time it's highly doubtful we'd have the wonderful stadium we have now. It may have resulted into a sprucing up of Roker Park into some sort of all seater which was an option after the Nissan debacle.
I have praised Keane throughout and criticised where I believe necessary. If you look through older threads on here discussing Keane as a pundit you will see I've spoken of how I like him. I genuinely have nothing against him. I don't make things personal when I'm having a debate on something which is how I can remain as objective as possible.