Sky News and Hillsborough memorial...

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The CCtv just shows entry through the gates not down the tunnel to the pitch that's where the police say the charging occurred.

Anyways far more concerned about those murdered at the Heysel - not seen anywhere near the same publicity for a wanton act of violence versus an accident
Bindippers just fukin love been the victims - they are so more often the perpetrators - I recall their charge at the gates for the European Cup Final - fortunately no-one was killed on that occasion - our bus windows were smashed for 10 years running coming away from Dippers FC

Scousers are low level ***** who love the moral high ground


PEOPLE WERE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND SERVED TIME BEHIND BARS FOR THE HEYSEL DISASTER.

THERE IS A MEMORIAL EVERY YEAR AT LIVERPOOL.

Fuck me get the chip off your shoulder man.
 


The coppers should never have opened the gates

so they were acting like animals outside crushing each other in an effort to expedite entry into the ground? Yes?

But don't think the supporters were blameless either.

I think you 3 need to watch the video below as the gate needed to be open as the fans weren't going to stop coming forward and were they fuck acting like animals crushing each other outside. It was a crowd build up but hasn't this happened even at Roker Park in the past? I know it has but barely recall personal experiences but I've read about our 1964 game against Man Utd when a gate was breached in the Roker End. Some on here were ther and I think there was injuries. What if fans had died then and police had failed to control the crowds or direct them, if they had the means to like they did in 1989 and then proceeded to lie about it after and cover it up?

http://rokerreport.sbnation.com/201...-tidbits-from-sunderlands-long-fa-cup-history

Although the official attendance for Sunderland's FA Cup sixth-round replay against Manchester United at Roker Park in 1964 was 46,727, it is estimated that the actual size of the crowd was close to double that figure. Fearful that they were not going to be able to get in, fans had torn down the gates at the Roker End and thousands had taken advantage and poured into the stadium. Such was the size of the crowd for the game, that the Sunderland players, who had spent the day at the Roker Hotel on the seafront, struggled to approach the ground. Although nothing can be confirmed, it is widely speculated that the game was the best attended Roker Park crowd in history.

have you never been in a huge crowd in a tight space before? as an individual you've no control and if more fans keep coming yet there's only 7 turnstiles ahead of them that can't cope, do you honestly think any fans of any club will just stop further back so close to kick off?

it's not as if the Police, FA and Sheffield Wednesday weren't aware of any previous issues

there's a lot of video footage from outside and you can understand why a copper in the crowds outside thought someone would be killed. Watch the video below at 4 mins on and you can see a young lad that looks like he's had the breath squeezed out of him being passed over the heads of fans!

some people need to watch this video

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/media/VID0002.html

this could quite have easily been SAFC and feel free to point out where the Liverpool fans acted out of order. A 150 or so fans poured through when they opened Gate C to hoy someone out. Any club's fans would have surged in just to get in for kick off but also to get away from the crush. Watch the video from 8 mins as it talks about this and the request to open the Gate anyway and they ejected the fan while this request was being considered

I think about 6:40ish in the video a copper on foot grabs a kid but he's obviously done summit previous as the copper on the horse had clipped him before that anarl.

at 4:40 in the video you can see even at 2:40PM the centre pen was full yet the police still allowed them access via the centre tunnel. You can see them playing with a beach ball and it's sad to think some would be dead within the hour!

what's more frustrating is that the fans were climbing out of the centre pen at 2:50PM (11 mins into video) yet they still allowed them in via the centre tunnel after this! at 11:20ish on it looks as if people are getting picked up, is that a barrier that has failed?

at 14 mins in the video you can see the open C gate and 100's of fans who go to the centre right of the video frame are going into the centre tunnel. You can imagine how much more packed the pens must have been getting as 100's poured each and every minute! It zooms out at 16:25 in the video and shows some are going to the left.

as you can see, it's not exactly 1,000's of fans rushing in via Gate C but rather a steady stream of them and slightly faster than walking pace. It's not that crowded once they are in but the the problem was some were going down the tunnel into a pen. As you saw in the video at 11 mins thiswas already quite full and over capacity so this lead to even more crushing in the pen. Fans at the back would have not have had any clue at all as to what was going on but the crushing in the pens had already started before this I think, but opening the gate obviously made it even worse.

it seems as if a few people on SMB don't know that serious crushing occurred in 1981 Semi final at Hillsborough between Spurs and Wolves and Gate C being opened. It wasn't used again until 1988 and again there were signs of crushing and yet it was ignored!

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/fa-ignored-warning-of-crushing-at-1988-semifinal-8135609.html

Hillsborough was not used as a semi-final venue from 1982 until 1987 because of a serious crush during the 1981 semi-final there, between Tottenham Hotspur and Wolverhampton Wanderers which, as in 1989, resulted in the opening of Exit Gate C to relieve the crush. The panel documents reveal that the near disaster in 1981 prompted a major breakdown in relations between South Yorkshire Police and Sheffield Wednesday, with neither accepting responsibility. The panel found that Wednesday's "primary concern was to limit costs" amid pressure for ground improvements.

Beardsley hitting the bar after a few mins and the roar of the crowd caused a surge of people to get in but again isn't this something that fans of any club would do? they wouldn't have had a clue about the fact that the centre pen was well over capacity

Beardsley stated that it was good he didn't score because it would have caused even more urgency for people to get in!

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/mar/15/hillsborough-disaster-survivors

Four minutes into the game I had a shot that hit the crossbar. Naturally, at the time I was disappointed. In hindsight, it was good that I didn't score, because people outside the ground heard the roar when I hit the bar and tried even harder to get into the terraces. They were just excited; they didn't know what was happening at the front. If I had scored, the fans would've been even more excited and more people could have been crushed. But as soon as I hit the bar I turned round, and from even way up the pitch I could see there was trouble behind the goal. There were people climbing over the fences. We didn't have a clue what was going on.

the sad thing is, the police opened the gates (due to potential crushing outside) but then failed to tell the relevant people inside what was happening so they could stop access to the centre tunnel and divert fans to the emptier sections. Yet they did exactly this the previous year in the semi final between Liverpool and Forest as they shut the centre tunnel access! Plus the Police control box overlooked that end, surely they would have realised we need to fill the outside pens and stop them going in the centre?

watching the video makes you want to be able to go back somehow and warn them what's going to happen! :cry:

@Jacka, if you've watched the video, by now you should realised the gate had to be opened, the police etc inside just didn't direct the fans nor were they told to or told to shut the centre tunnel

to both @Mackem DJ and @Geronimo, it's as if you've made your comment in the year 1989! do you want to retract what you said or are you blaming all those turning up late? at most all you can say is it may have be ticketless fans who might have contributed to the disaster. Nobody actually knows how many ticketless fans there was or whether this would have had an effect if they fans had been directed to the emptier pens once inside
 
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The CCtv just shows entry through the gates not down the tunnel to the pitch that's where the police say the charging occurred.

Anyways far more concerned about those murdered at the Heysel - not seen anywhere near the same publicity for a wanton act of violence versus an accident
Bindippers just fukin love been the victims - they are so more often the perpetrators - I recall their charge at the gates for the European Cup Final - fortunately no-one was killed on that occasion - our bus windows were smashed for 10 years running coming away from Dippers FC

Scousers are low level ***** who love the moral high ground

so do you think SAFC fans would have acted differently if it had been us at Hillsborough? chances are it would have been a similar outcome as with any other club with a big following. You should now be aware this wasn't an isolated incident at Hillsborough either if you've read my link above regarding 1981 and 1988 Semi's

the crushing had started before the kick off and the fact the police let the fans in but then failed to direct them to the empty pens is the biggest f***ing reason that 96 people died. The fans at the back had no f***ing clue what was the other side of the tunnel. Have you not experienced being carried in a crowd before? now imagine that going down a tunnel, do you think you'd be able to stop yourself or would you just go with the 'flow' to stop being crushed?

please tell me where in the video above of the fans where they are acting unlike any other fan of the 80's would have done (or even now 25 years later)?

as mentioned, Beardsley hitting the bar caused a surge of fans trying to get in via the tunnel. Again, do you think SAFC fans would have been polite, waited about and said "after you kind sir" and allowed fans in one at a time? a surge would happen now in any ground (a goal right before HT or FT for example) as that's how fans react but Hillsborough was obviously different with there being more going through a small tunnel into an already overcrowded space. Don't they now delay matches if crowds aren't all in by kick off so there's no chance of a surge?

14 of those fans at Heysel were prosecuted and got 3 years for manslaughter, how many prosecution has there been for Hillsborough even though there's been obvious negligence and lying by certain authorities?

I shifted through some of the disclosed documents when they came out and there was testimony in there from a turnstile operator that ticketless fans were vaulting turnstiles to get into the ground.

Now, anyone who has looked at the causes of the disaster far closer than me has not apportioned blame to the fans (at least not to any material extent). However, it seems that there were some ticketless fans in the Leppings Lane end (if that testimony is true).

could they not have been trying to get out of the crush outside that started well before kick off? would you hang about if you were getting crushed but then had a chance to move by jumping a turnstile rather than fuck about waiting to get in? would you also say "hold on Lads while I show my ticket" when vaulting ower the turnstile? There was fans also climbing ower the walls but not 100's and 100's

if you check the video I posted then you will see that the fans coming through the turnstiles aren't exactly flying through as if they're jumped the turnstile.

If they had been 1,000's who were ticketless then surely they'd have been streaming in over the walls/roof. There's a few at times in the video but this was more due to them trying to escape the crush (commented on at 5:25 in the video). Aye there will have been ticketless fans and some may well have jumped through but no way would it have been enough to have killed 96. Wasn't there was room in the pens either side for the estimated amount of the fans there regardless? obviously they weren't directed and blocked from accessing the centre tunnel so we'll never know if they'd have all got in but I doubt 96 would have died

p.s. fuck me, how the fuck did I type all that? can't be arsed to proof read but fuck me there's some embarrassing comments in this and other threads regarding Hillsborough! :oops:
@---Nemo--- you said you enjoy my long efforts, I had to split this into 2 posts as the limit is 10,000 characters! :lol:
 
People bending over backwards on this thread to justify the actions of Liverpool fans on that day.

"It could have been us" - it wasn't. It always had a habit of being them.... Sheffield, Heysel, Istanbul.

There is some right embarrassing attention seeking ***** raising their ugly heads in this thread like. I'm ashamed that so-called football supporters (especially who claim to follow the club I love) hold these views. Thick headed and shameful cretins.
Are you outraged alan??
 
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They were.

All they did is enter the ground and follow the police's directions. It's all in the report.
The problem was that once the gates were open there was no directions inside, so they all went to the same place

It is unlikely to happen with all seater stadiums.
 
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People bending over backwards on this thread to justify the actions of Liverpool fans on that day.

"It could have been us" - it wasn't. It always had a habit of being them.... Sheffield, Heysel, Istanbul.


Are you outraged alan??

You know what, pal? I am. The ignorance shown by yourself and others on this thread is shocking. I'm sure if it was one of your loved ones who perished that day through no fault of their own and their fellow supporter and there was a massive cover up to move the finger of blame away from the authorities who were ultimately responsible you'd be a tiny bit annoyed by it.


Anyway, other people have said it far more eloquently than I have. I just think you're trolling and are an ignorant piece of shite. I bid you a good day, sir.
 
Its only the more recent reports which don't lay some of the blame at Liverpool fans door though?

Is it a case of you (or anyone else) being picky about which report is or isn't to be sniffed at to suit the appropriate agenda?

No report does.

so they were acting like animals outside crushing each other in an effort to expedite entry into the ground? Yes?

Another one who is desperate to believe the smear campaign, like it's the f***ing Tooth Fairy.

The problem was that once the gates were open there was no directions inside, so they all went to the same place

It is unlikely to happen with all seater stadiums.

True, and the physical factor that led to death was the fences.

iirc the move to all seats came from the perspective of allocated space. One of the failings that day was that tickets weren't checked. There were interviews in the aftermath with Liverpool fans showing their full tickets, demonstrating how the counterfoil was never taken (i.e. they should've just been left with a stub).

Over time, this footage became misremembered, and the 'ticketless fans' myth was born.

The CCtv just shows entry through the gates not down the tunnel to the pitch that's where the police say the charging occurred.

The police don't say anything of the sort. That's part of what the cover up said, and the police accept it.

There are thousands of forged documents that are now in the public domain. The 3 instigators of the cover up - the tories, police and The Sun - all accept they lied. Why do you continue to believe otherwise? What's wrong with you?
 
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No report does.



Another one who is desperate to believe the smear campaign, like it's the f***ing Tooth Fairy.



True, and the physical factor that led to death was the fences.

iirc the move to all seats came from the perspective of allocated space. One of the failings that day was that tickets weren't checked. There were interviews in the aftermath with Liverpool fans showing their full tickets, demonstrating how the counterfoil was never taken (i.e. they should've just been left with a stub).

Over time, this footage became misremembered, and the 'ticketless fans' myth was born.



The police don't say anything of the sort. That's part of what the cover up said, and the police accept it.

There are thousands of forged documents that are now in the public domain. The 3 instigators of the cover up - the tories, police and The Sun - all accept they lied. Why do you continue to believe otherwise? What's wrong with you?

You are wasting your time.

People have their own agenda and won't listen to the truth.
 
... disgusting scumbags. Roberto Martinez went off script and Sky News panicked forcing Kay Burley to pipe up & distance Sky News from any of his comments in his improvised speech.

:neutral:


You are a young lad, you spend far too much time being outraged.
Get out, get pissed, get a shag, have a punch up in a kebab shop like normal people.
 
Watching the videos again it's astonishing how many people were in those pens :(

Lucky only 96 died in that circumstance

Fans at the back pushing to get a view must harbour a lot of guilt. Unfairly of course, not their fault
 
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soz, it should have been post as you'd said this earlier in this thread

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/sky-news-and-hillsborough-memorial.905792/page-4#post-17486228



you're not saying they should let it lie but then you're asking what justice do they want and what is this word justice? for starters Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield should be at least up for charges of negligence (some may want manslaughter). What about all those involved in trying to cover it up with lies and altering statements?

what about prosecutions for whoever regarding the invalid safety certificate?

You need to do some Googling mate rather than making comments that you're making ;)

or do you really want to still play dumb and ask what is the word 'justice' is about?
I wasn't really making any comments - just asking questions. I was trying to be sincere. There's already been inquests. There's already been answers. There's already been apologies. Apologies from the PM, the South Yorkshire Police, and the FA. I'm just interested to know to what end they want to take it. What will bring closure?

Chappers put it reasonably well...
Any police officer who has been part in any kind of cover up, should serve jail time.
... and that's fair enough. It's an answer. and he managed it without any arsey comments. If it's prosecutions they're after then that's fair enough. That isn't clear though. And I'm not sure it's even correct.
 
No report does.



Another one who is desperate to believe the smear campaign, like it's the f***ing Tooth Fairy.



True, and the physical factor that led to death was the fences.

iirc the move to all seats came from the perspective of allocated space. One of the failings that day was that tickets weren't checked. There were interviews in the aftermath with Liverpool fans showing their full tickets, demonstrating how the counterfoil was never taken (i.e. they should've just been left with a stub).

Over time, this footage became misremembered, and the 'ticketless fans' myth was born.



The police don't say anything of the sort. That's part of what the cover up said, and the police accept it.

There are thousands of forged documents that are now in the public domain. The 3 instigators of the cover up - the tories, police and The Sun - all accept they lied. Why do you continue to believe otherwise? What's wrong with you?

Is it wrong to hate whinging bindippers who are quite likely to storm an entrance again in the future as shown by the European Cup Final 'event'
It was them pushing and shoving that killed people - and then the police for not opening up the gates to the pitch in time. Fukin blame culture looking for everything else and the cat to blame. Heysel showed their mentality in all of its glory as do the bus windows everytime you leave that shithole.
 
It would have happened to any set of supporters. It was an accident waiting to happen. We were at a FA cup semi-final a few years later at Hillsborough.

It nearly happened the year before, Liverpool wanted the Kop at Hillsborough.
 
I wasn't really making any comments - just asking questions. I was trying to be sincere. There's already been inquests. There's already been answers. There's already been apologies. Apologies from the PM, the South Yorkshire Police, and the FA. I'm just interested to know to what end they want to take it. What will bring closure?

Chappers put it reasonably well...
... and that's fair enough. It's an answer. and he managed it without any arsey comments. If it's prosecutions they're after then that's fair enough. That isn't clear though. And I'm not sure it's even correct.

They want someone to be punished for causing the deaths of 96 football fans. That's what Justice is. They've cleared the names of their loved ones but someone needs to be punished.


Say someone had killed one of your family members and it was covered up for 25 years. Would you just accept an apology as justice? or would you want someone punished?
 
Say someone had killed one of your family members and it was covered up for 25 years. Would you just accept an apology as justice? or would you want someone punished?

Look, I've answered this nonsense already. There's no need to get on the high horse asking people how they would feel if they lost someone every time they say or ask something that isn't quite pro-JTF96 - which I'm not by the way. I hope they get what they want. I really do. I just wasn't at all sure what exactly that is.

But to look at your question again, you've brought two very strong words into it there - 'killed' and 'punished'. Nobody involved at Hillsborough killed anybody. And who exactly do they punish? Are they going to make murderers of the Police?

There was a number of factors at play that day, and it all contributed to an absolute calamity. To lay the blame at any one person or body is a bit unreasonable.
 
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The problem was that once the gates were open there was no directions inside, so they all went to the same place

It is unlikely to happen with all seater stadiums.

THAT has always been my reply to anyone concerning Hillsborough. Id been there twice and stood near the corner flags both times after going down the tunnel. I was never even aware that there was another way onto the terrace apart from the tunnel. Zero signage and no safety certificate means the people in power at the FA, Hillsborough, Sheffield Council and South Yorks police should be answering some very serious questions. Hang em high.
 
as mentioned, Beardsley hitting the bar caused a surge of fans trying to get in via the tunnel.

Actually, mate, if you read the accounts of people who were in that crush they had no idea Beardsley hat hit the bar because they couldn't see anything and there was no impact on the crowd when he did hit the bar because they were that tightly packed in it had gone well beyond a swaying crowd. If there was a surge backwards and forwards then it might have helped some of them to wrestle themselves free. Most of them could literally not move an arm or leg anywhere and those lucky enough to do so were those who maybe saw it coming and so held there arms up out of the crowd. The fortunate few who did got helped up by other fans and crawled over the top of other fans down to the front and over the fence - that is those who could get past the police trying to push them back in.

In a nutshell, the central pens were double capacity and that was the problem and the pressure was that much that barriers snapped. A gate burst open at the front under the weight and the police quickly shut it and forced people back into the crowd.
 
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