"The Conservative party would have us believe that the poor deserve to be punished"

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http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-the-poor-deserve-to-be-punished-9768019.html

I don't care who you vote for, but it must be made clear that the tories are not the answer to the problems in Britain today.

What kind of party strives to freeze jobseekers allowance, strip it away altogether from young people (forgetting the enormous employment statistics this age group suffers) and then give away billions in tax cuts to people with wealthy pensions and Middle Class incomes?

They cut, cut, cut and cut, but its achieved nothing and there is still a massive budget deficit over £100 billion. Not even that half of what they started with.

They claimed they would cut net immigration down to 100,000 -- its still at an all time high of 243,000.

You can't trust the tories. Cameron is all style and no substance, all PR. Nothing more.
 


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-the-poor-deserve-to-be-punished-9768019.html

I don't care who you vote for, but it must be made clear that the tories are not the answer to the problems in Britain today.

What kind of party strives to freeze jobseekers allowance, strip it away altogether from young people (forgetting the enormous employment statistics this age group suffers) and then give away billions in tax cuts to people with wealthy pensions and Middle Class incomes?

They cut, cut, cut and cut, but its achieved nothing and there is still a massive budget deficit over £100 billion. Not even that half of what they started with.

They claimed they would cut net immigration down to 100,000 -- its still at an all time high of 243,000.

You can't trust the tories. Cameron is all style and no substance, all PR. Nothing more.

Hear hear.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-the-poor-deserve-to-be-punished-9768019.html

I don't care who you vote for, but it must be made clear that the tories are not the answer to the problems in Britain today.

What kind of party strives to freeze jobseekers allowance, strip it away altogether from young people (forgetting the enormous employment statistics this age group suffers) and then give away billions in tax cuts to people with wealthy pensions and Middle Class incomes?

They cut, cut, cut and cut, but its achieved nothing and there is still a massive budget deficit over £100 billion. Not even that half of what they started with.

They claimed they would cut net immigration down to 100,000 -- its still at an all time high of 243,000.

You can't trust the tories. Cameron is all style and no substance, all PR. Nothing more.
Labour are the alternative, we're fucked regardless.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-the-poor-deserve-to-be-punished-9768019.html

I don't care who you vote for, but it must be made clear that the tories are not the answer to the problems in Britain today.

What kind of party strives to freeze jobseekers allowance, strip it away altogether from young people (forgetting the enormous employment statistics this age group suffers) and then give away billions in tax cuts to people with wealthy pensions and Middle Class incomes?

They cut, cut, cut and cut, but its achieved nothing and there is still a massive budget deficit over £100 billion. Not even that half of what they started with.

They claimed they would cut net immigration down to 100,000 -- its still at an all time high of 243,000.

You can't trust the tories. Cameron is all style and no substance, all PR. Nothing more.
Most of the tory defectors to UKIP are doing so because the Conservative Party aren't seen as conservative enough.
 
Labour are the alternative, we're fucked regardless.

a vote for the tories is a wasted vote in the northeast.

Most of the tory defectors to UKIP are doing so because the Conservative Party aren't seen as conservative enough.

did I mention UKIP? no?

But nonetheless UKIP have much more compassionate policies on welfare and the NHS than the tories. Nothing is getting stripped away from the poor.

I saw those tory announcements and I have to say I felt they were nasty.
 
a vote for the tories is a wasted vote in the northeast.
What's the UKIP stance on FPTP voting and PR?

a vote for the tories is a wasted vote in the northeast.



did I mention UKIP? no?

But nonetheless UKIP have much more compassionate policies on welfare and the NHS than the tories. Nothing is getting stripped away from the poor.

I saw those tory announcements and I have to say I felt they were nasty.
The point being that a lot of these nasty tories seem to find a natural home in UKIP.
 
a vote for the tories is a wasted vote in the northeast.



did I mention UKIP? no?

But nonetheless UKIP have much more compassionate policies on welfare and the NHS than the tories. Nothing is getting stripped away from the poor.

I saw those tory announcements and I have to say I felt they were nasty.
Agreed thats why I'm voting for the Greens. Labour will always win here but refuse to vote for them or the tories.

This will be my first general election as I was 17 during the 2010 election.
 
What's the UKIP stance on FPTP voting and PR?


The point being that a lot of these nasty tories seem to find a natural home in UKIP.

I think that's a pretty broad assumption.

The current tory party is still very economically right wing and thus very "nasty", but it is socially liberal (and this is where the shift has occurred). If we're going to say the tories "aren't nasty enough" then we're deceiving ourselves because on the issues of economy, on welfare, spending, etc, it hasn't moved leftwards at all, its very much thatcherite.

The UKIP defectors are not moving for these economic and welfare reasons, why would they? the tory party hasn't lurched into socialism or moderated this old approach to the economy. They are moving because of social issues, such as the EU, immigration, etc (where the tory party has moved).

Rather, the defectors believe that the party has abandoned ordinary people and its grassroots support. These people resemble more the "one nation conservatives" under the days of Heath, MacMillan, etc, where the Tory party actually had a working class appeal and believed in the importance of a social unity- the era when sunderland was actually a conservative seat.
 
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http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-the-poor-deserve-to-be-punished-9768019.html

I don't care who you vote for, but it must be made clear that the tories are not the answer to the problems in Britain today.

What kind of party strives to freeze jobseekers allowance, strip it away altogether from young people (forgetting the enormous employment statistics this age group suffers) and then give away billions in tax cuts to people with wealthy pensions and Middle Class incomes?

They cut, cut, cut and cut, but its achieved nothing and there is still a massive budget deficit over £100 billion. Not even that half of what they started with.

They claimed they would cut net immigration down to 100,000 -- its still at an all time high of 243,000.

You can't trust the tories. Cameron is all style and no substance, all PR. Nothing more.
Yes.
 
The way I see it is that the Conservatives are attempting to end the something for nothing society.

If a person is able to work why shouldn't they contribute to society?

Labour allowed a whole generation to sit on the backsides and see benefits as their God given right.

This was not only a insult to all the tax payers in this country. It was also a betrayal to the unemployed themselves.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-the-poor-deserve-to-be-punished-9768019.html

I don't care who you vote for, but it must be made clear that the tories are not the answer to the problems in Britain today.

What kind of party strives to freeze jobseekers allowance, strip it away altogether from young people (forgetting the enormous employment statistics this age group suffers) and then give away billions in tax cuts to people with wealthy pensions and Middle Class incomes?

They cut, cut, cut and cut, but its achieved nothing and there is still a massive budget deficit over £100 billion. Not even that half of what they started with.

They claimed they would cut net immigration down to 100,000 -- its still at an all time high of 243,000.

You can't trust the tories. Cameron is all style and no substance, all PR. Nothing more.

I don't think anyone would deny that a successful economy is a pre-requisite for a healthy NHS, good educational facilities etc.The fact that the UK has the best growth rate in Europe and better than any major economy other than India and China is a positive. This is predicted to continue for the foreseeable future. This is not PR. To deal with immigration you need to deal with EU freedom of movement. That is what Cameron will do and this is not PR. If you just want to say that everything the Tories do is evil/stupid then debate is pointless.

Where the Tories fall down is that they are almost exclusively the product of privileged private education and therefore have never been on the dole or known anyone who has been on the dole or had that threat. Yes, we have to break the cycle in certain families that the dole is a career choice. Unfortunately the Tories aren't the party to do this. The best policy they have brought in is Pupil Premium which requires schools to get more progress for the Pupil Premium students than their average student. Surely social mobility is facilitated through education. Unfortunately again this was not a Tory policy but that of the much maligned Nick Clegg.

I have never voted Tory but I just can't vote for someone so inept as Ed Milliband. When I read threads like this I just wonder why people waste their time. This bunch of Tories are not even extreme and they are doing what they said they would. Anger should be directed at Ed Milliband who is seen by many, many Labour voters as someone who would be a disaster to lead this country. For the first time in my life I have no one I can vote for - no wonder the so many Scots wanted to escape. If Labour get in it will be down to UKIP. However, after Cameron's speech yesterday I still think the Tories may get again in - I blame the Labour party and no one else.
 
The BBC did an analysis of Cameron's promises from his Conference speech and came to the conclusion that (as he refused to give answers as to how they would fund the promises) they would have to increase the Public Sector Borrowing way beyond the record levels they have already achieved and introduce even more draconian cuts in services. They also highlighted his "how dare they accuse me of wanting to harm the NHS" by pointing out how many NHS Hospitals are in funding crisis with no help forthcoming from central government without cutting services - though to be fair a lot of the funding problems were as a result of Labour's idiotic PFI strategies!!!

Lastly, it was this administration that virtually overnight terminated the Careers Service, which had a good track record of placing young people into work and further education / training, at a time when youth unemployment was at record levels. Their wonderful strategy was that schools could pick up the strings, though no extra funding was allocated and very little training or guidance given to the teachers who suddenly found their job descriptions had additional responsibilities!

Don't worry, whatever the politicians say, their promises will always be empty and the NHS will never be safe in the hands of the Conservatives. Out of interest, I note that the latest promise is that I will be guaranteed access to my GP seven days a week at a time I want. Sounds like a cracking idea and it should be extended to other services like when I want to see my MP about an important matter! No f***ing chance ....
 
I don't think anyone would deny that a successful economy is a pre-requisite for a healthy NHS, good educational facilities etc.The fact that the UK has the best growth rate in Europe and better than any major economy other than India and China is a positive. This is predicted to continue for the foreseeable future. This is not PR. To deal with immigration you need to deal with EU freedom of movement. That is what Cameron will do and this is not PR. If you just want to say that everything the Tories do is evil/stupid then debate is pointless.

Where the Tories fall down is that they are almost exclusively the product of privileged private education and therefore have never been on the dole or known anyone who has been on the dole or had that threat. Yes, we have to break the cycle in certain families that the dole is a career choice. Unfortunately the Tories aren't the party to do this. The best policy they have brought in is Pupil Premium which requires schools to get more progress for the Pupil Premium students than their average student. Surely social mobility is facilitated through education. Unfortunately again this was not a Tory policy but that of the much maligned Nick Clegg.

I have never voted Tory but I just can't vote for someone so inept as Ed Milliband. When I read threads like this I just wonder why people waste their time. This bunch of Tories are not even extreme and they are doing what they said they would. Anger should be directed at Ed Milliband who is seen by many, many Labour voters as someone who would be a disaster to lead this country. For the first time in my life I have no one I can vote for - no wonder the so many Scots wanted to escape. If Labour get in it will be down to UKIP. However, after Cameron's speech yesterday I still think the Tories may get again in - I blame the Labour party and no one else.

This is latest Cameron's PR Spin.

If they aren't voting tory and are voting UKIP instead, that's not "UKIP's fault"- it means that there is something blatantly wrong with the tory party to the extent people aren't voting for them. To put it in other words, they're basically "we can't win because you're voting for someone else instead", what kind of serious argument is that? :lol: any party could technically say it :lol:
 
The way I see it is that the Conservatives are attempting to end the something for nothing society.

If a person is able to work why shouldn't they contribute to society?

Labour allowed a whole generation to sit on the backsides and see benefits as their God given right.

This was not only a insult to all the tax payers in this country. It was also a betrayal to the unemployed themselves.
I think you'll find that it was the Thatcher administration which encouraged anyone who had been unemployed for over 12 months to migrate to Incapacity Benefits without any assessment reviews to determine whether they were fit for work! It was Labour who introduced the assessment reviews .......
 
This is latest Cameron's PR Spin.

If they aren't voting tory and are voting UKIP instead, that's not "UKIP's fault"- it means that there is something blatantly wrong with the tory party to the extent people aren't voting for them. To put it in other words, they're basically "we can't win because you're voting for someone else instead", what kind of serious argument is that? :lol: any party could technically say it :lol:

If I was Cameron I would say what he's saying. The people who vote UKIP would in the main far prefer the Tories in than Labour. He's right to say that voting UKIP is a vote for Labour - its sensible for him to say that.
 
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