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Deleted member 1358
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Yes. But if it encourages depart and further investigation and publication of historical events it's a good thing imo
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Yes. But if it encourages depart and further investigation and publication of historical events it's a good thing imo
D
Deleted member 10594
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seen a trailer for it looks good
Might wait for it coming out on pirate bay
Might wait for it coming out on pirate bay
Mr.Thunders
Striker
Do fancy going to see it, just get put off by filums with Keira pointy chin nee tits.
Schindler's List is an interesting case. In real life Schindler was initially an active Nazi who did some work for German intelligence. In a way this makes his conversion even more surprising but in the film he's just a capitalist who wasn't above working with the Nazis if it got him personal gain. Also he actually escaped with a ton of money and his wife AND mistress in tow at the end of the war. In my view this just shows he was a complex person but Spielberg often likes to stick to broad strokes characterisations, because he knows what plays well to an audience.
So some of the Hollywoodisation is the director trying to make sure it connects to the viewers and having a very mainstream sensibility. A lot of it is the usual way they try to streamline the story and/or get certain things across which fit the overall story but not the specific story they're filming. This can be little details like Goethe shooting Jews from his balcony when in fact he walked to a nearby hill to do it, and the near miss shower scene actually took place at a different camp but Auschwitz is the name everyone knows and has more impact.
Generally Spielberg tried really hard to get the facts mostly right or at least consistent with the truth. I think people can accept that; it's when the film totally pisses about with the facts to tell a story that didn't happen that way which I don't think is acceptable.
errant
Striker
was there a film a few years ago about submarine that the Americans captured, taking an enigma machine? whereas it didn't actually happen, or was undertaken by another allied country?
It did happen, but it was the British wot took it, apparently. Not Bon jovi.
And it was a later version of it. We'd been cracking older version of it for years, but couldn't crack the new version because we didn't know what it looked like. When this later version was captured, we cracked that anarl. We're mint like.
The Poles were the first to crack it. Hopefully they'll get some credit in the film, as they do in Hodges book.
Sadly they don't get a mention in the Fillum. They were cracking it for years before us, basically because they catalogued all the possible settings of the original machine.
I'm reading The Code Book by Simon Singh for those who are interested in a bit of history and a bit/fair bit of maths around the whole thing. Couple of chapters on enigma and a load of history about codes in general from the 16th century onwards. Excellent book.
That's a real shame, because not only did the crack the code they also broke protocol and shared the information with the British. The poor Poles always get the shit end of the stick.
I asked the tour guide at Bletchley how the Poles managed to crack it before us and he said basically the Brits assumed that the Germans wouldn't be daft enough to have the letters on the rotors in alphabetical order so assumed they'd jumble them up for added security. Apparently they were daft enough. The Poles realised that.
U-571
"The fictitious plot attracted substantial criticism since, in reality, it wasBritish personnel from HMS Bulldog who first captured a naval Enigma machine (from U-110 in the North Atlantic in May 1941), months before the United States had even entered the war. The anger over the inaccuracies even reached the British Parliament, where Prime Minister Tony Blairstated that the film was an "affront" to Britishsailors.[3]
The real U-571 was never involved in any such events, was not captured, and was in fact sunk in January 1944, off Ireland, by a Short Sunderland flying boat from No. 461 Squadron, Royal Australian Air Force."
errant
Striker
tak!
Son of Stan
Striker
Looking forward to the film but read that it was a version of the truth and misses a lot out about him. Love the old Cumberbatch - saw him in Frankenstein on stage and he was incredible.
The Continuing Story
Midfield
A letter to the Daily Mail (I read it because its free at work) stated that it was actually the Polish who invented the machine. Turings role was minimal has been hyped up by those with a "gay agenda". Something like that anyway.
What I concluded from this was that the Daily Mail dislikes gays more than immigrants.
What I concluded from this was that the Daily Mail dislikes gays more than immigrants.
errant
Striker
the irony to draw from that would be that very little has changed since the 50s and judges handing down chemical castration....
The Dutch invented the Engima machine. A German sold the secrets to the French who gave it to the Polish as they didn't know what to do with it. The Polish firstly used manual methods to break the code then a mechanical method to search through their catalogue of all the different possible settings. That was technically the first machine but it relied on firstly having the catalogue which took a year to build and as soon as the Germans added another wheel it was useless.
Turing invented a machine that didn't need a catalogue. The Polish did some cracking stuff first like, there's no doubt about it, which gave Turing a head start.
Basically the Polish machine was breaking codes with odds of around 17,576-1. Turing's machine did odds of 159,000,000,000,000,000,000-1. That's the difference.
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Just to illustrate how important that was, Turing's industrialisation of the code breaking meant every German operational transmission was known to the allies, whereas the more manual methods of the Poles would break a lot of but nowhere near all transmissions.
Thanks to Turing we knew the existence and mission of every German spy sent to Britain before they got here, and had someone waiting for them. Spies were turned into double agents so that not only did their intelligence efforts achieve fuck all for the Nazis, it effectively meant their entire spy network was working for us.
The Continuing Story
Midfield
Thats amazing, very interesting. I wish I knew more on the topic.
But then again, The Daily Mail stated that its been hijacked by the gay mafia wanting to promote an agenda so its difficult to know what to believe.......
Another interesting story I found out at Bletchley was that the Luftwaffe and Navy both had different Enigma machines so had to be cracked in different ways. The Navy was the hardest.Thats amazing, very interesting. I wish I knew more on the topic.
But then again, The Daily Mail stated that its been hijacked by the gay mafia wanting to promote an agenda so its difficult to know what to believe.......
Apparently while they were trying to crack the latest version of the Navy code the Bismarck was on it's way out to the Atlantic. We were crapping it because our supply lines were at risk. We had no idea where the Bismarck was headed as we couldn't crack the navy code. Until one bloke in the Luftwaffe sent a message to the Navy asking if his son, who was on the Bismarck, was okay. The Admiral replied, in Luftwaffe code, that yes he was and crucially that they were headed to Brest for repairs.
Because Bletchley could read Luftwaffe code, we sank the Bismarck on that information.
D
Deleted member 5265
Guest
I think they do pet IIRC. I think there was a brief mention.
I think, but @HellsBells may know better than me as she's doing a lot of reading about it, that it was actually Colussus and the cracking of Tunny (a different encryption system from Enigma) rather than Turing's Bombe which cracked Enigma that led directly to the development of the computer.
Also I think I'm right in saying that we shared the technology with the Yanks as part of the deal for all the £££ they gave us in the war, and partly because that's what allies do of course. The Yanks then took the technology and saw how it might have peaceful/commercial application, and that led directly to IBM, and to Microsoft, and to Apple. Meanwhile, our government insisted that even after the end of the war it remained ultra ultra secret, so no research into the commercial possibilities was ever done. This is why Silicon Valley is in California rather than in Buckinghamshire: we invented the fucker but failed to exploit it. I think I'm right in saying this but may be wrong.
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