Work for your dole

[kensplace]

all the more reason to put more effort into put soem quality into their sad existance... you never know many of them have maybe had no structure or been asked to do anything.

a tough hand can sometimes work wonders. for many it wont but if it works for 5% then it would be a good think in my eyes.

I'm happy for it to cost a billion a year to supervise and run cos 3 or 5 years down the line it migth be saving 2 billion a year in benefits...

I take it research and maths were not your strong point?

If it worked for 5 percent of JSA cases, then, considering JSA in total is only around 5 billion a year.... 5 percent of that would be 25 million.

A far cry from 2 billion a year.
It would cost more than that to run the scheme...

In fact, the existing scheme has pushed up the cost of JSA.

Liam Byrne, the Labour employment spokesman, said that the figures proved the Coalition’s scheme was ineffective. “After just one year, the failures of the Work Programme have created a huge £9 billion benefits black hole at the Department for Work and Pensions,” he said. “Ministers have been “asleep at the wheel as their back-to-work programmes have started to stall.”

 

[Kubicki's right boot]

How does that work then?
Where did you get that info from?
Of course, I admit that if you have kids they throw money at you, but most of the big money in benefits is housing related and child related - both of which are available to low income workers too.

That's still wrong though.
It means kids are the route to greater financial security.
Someone on their own with no kids has an obvious choice to greatly enhance their position if they have kids.
Its wrong.

 

[Market Where?]

This is Nowt new

3-4 year agan I was on Redcar council litter picking for my rock n roll I f***ing loved it

Got me out of the house into a working routine

Worked 8-4 Monday to Thursday half day Friday doing jobsearching

Just a pity there wasn't a job at the end of it but had something to put down on my cv

Id be more than happy to do it again

No Hank you don't understand. The bankers were using you as free labour to boost some soulless corporations profits. You didn't learn any skills of any worth.

 

[AndrewP]

Until you find them instead of saying "they must exist because I say so", I don't know. We know the rich avoid paying tax because the figures are published and accountants advertise themselves as the best tax avoiders. You cannot tell who if anybody is workshy just because they have been unemployed a long time.

We all know at least one work shy person. It's impossible not to, unless you were homeschooled and a hermit.[DOUBLEPOST=1380651264][/DOUBLEPOST]

This is Nowt new

3-4 year agan I was on Redcar council litter picking for my rock n roll I f***ing loved it

Got me out of the house into a working routine

Worked 8-4 Monday to Thursday half day Friday doing jobsearching

Just a pity there wasn't a job at the end of it but had something to put down on my cv

Id be more than happy to do it again

Top man hank.

 

[Market Where?]

I take it research and maths were not your strong point?

If it worked for 5 percent of JSA cases, then, considering JSA in total is only around 5 billion a year.... 5 percent of that would be 25 million.

A far cry from 2 billion a year.
It would cost more than that to run the scheme...

In fact, the existing scheme has pushed up the cost of JSA.

250 million a year would probably be worth it though!

 

[kensplace]

It's called getting rid of the something for nothing attitude, what part of that don't you understand, this should have happened years ago then maybe we wouldn't have people like you that think you can sit on your arse claiming money to go out on the piss with because they are under the mistaken assumption that it's an entitlement.

Perhaps mp's should lead by example.

They get plenty of benefits that normal workers do not get.
They are masters at getting something for nothing, masters of feeling (and voting to ensure they get it) entitled.[DOUBLEPOST=1380651652][/DOUBLEPOST]

Have there been any other schemes where people had to work for just their Job Seeker's allowance?

Pretty much every scheme going over the last few decades.
It works like this, DWP see someone who is less likely to kick off, or who they think wont be able to cope on a course (lovely for the dwp as this leads to a sanction).
DWP sends said person on scheme.
Said person continues to get JSA whilst on the scheme.
If said person leaves or refuses scheme then they are sanctioned, JSA stops.
Its working for JSA in all but name.

 

[the flying graysons]

I take it research and maths were not your strong point?

If it worked for 5 percent of JSA cases, then, considering JSA in total is only around 5 billion a year.... 5 percent of that would be 25 million.

.

Doh!

The worlds first sefl tucking maths genius

 

[kensplace]

"Osborne claims that 200,000 people will be forced into either full time workfare or massively increased conditionality – such as having to attend Jobcentres everyday."

That must be such a hardship for someone who has been seeking work for three years in a row. How dare they impose such increased "conditionality" on them?

As usual osbourne cannot have investigated the logistics of this, these places are already stretched to the limits having people sign on once a fortnight.

They would collapse under the strain of having people sign on daily.[DOUBLEPOST=1380651928][/DOUBLEPOST]

Yeah, on the ET, they were signed off and got a training allowance (which happened to be about dole + 25%). The idea was that it would lead directly to permanent employment. This is a bit different in that they'll remain job seekers but will have to a bit here and there for their money.

The ET was the equivalent of giving someone £90 per week now to train. It was a bit shit though as employers often saw it as cheap labour, they have to ensure this doesn't happen here too.

I have been on a few ET schemes in the past, some good, some bad.

As for ensuring its not seen as cheap labour, unfortunately - that is now a requirement of the current schemes - it HAS to be seen as cheap labour that WILL NOT LEAD TO A JOB.

Its part of the rules that people must not be employed from the work scheme - so that people are not seen to be using as a source of cheap labour. Perverse yes, illogical yes, but thats politicians for you.

 

[AndrewP]

As usual osbourne cannot have investigated the logistics of this, these places are already stretched to the limits having people sign on once a fortnight.

They would collapse under the strain of having people sign on daily.

Agreed, I suggested people might be able to clock in at some sort of existing electronic point each day instead.

Do you agree those who have been unemployed for three years should be forced to get up early each weekday and clock on, if the resources were made available for them to do so?

 

[kensplace]

Talking through your hoop pal.

If you are SERIOUS about getting a job, these conditions are not odious and will sort out the wasters.

They are pretty odious for those that genuinely are trying to get a job or who genuinely never will be able to work again through no fault of there own.
They want those people to mix daily with the lowest low life chav scum who have no intention of working. Thats pretty odious, time wasting and risky.

 

[AndrewP]

They are pretty odious for those that genuinely are trying to get a job or who genuinely never will be able to work again through no fault of there own.
They want those people to mix daily with the lowest low life chav scum who have no intention of working. Thats pretty odious, time wasting and risky.

Now you've done it. "Twas" will be along soon denying such people exist.

 

[Bagpuss]

It is slightly ironic that everyone is hammering the unemployed who are apparently bankrupting the country.....This despite accounting for just 10% of the benefits budget....Statistically the real drain in terms of benefits are OAPs and yet they are the only group who have been ring fenced in terms of the benefits cuts....Not advocating slashing pensions btw but a nasty and clever govt finding a scapegoat to deflect attention from the monstrous cost of state pensions. (wonder if it has anything to do with the grey vote, hmmmm)

 

[sidneyeric]

It is slightly ironic that everyone is hammering the unemployed who are apparently bankrupting the country.....This despite accounting for just 10% of the benefits budget....Statistically the real drain in terms of benefits are OAPs and yet they are the only group who have been ring fenced in terms of the benefits cuts....Not advocating slashing pensions btw but a nasty and clever govt finding a scapegoat to deflect attention from the monstrous cost of state pensions. (wonder if it has anything to do with the grey vote, hmmmm)

The grey vote.

 

[AndrewP]

It is slightly ironic that everyone is hammering the unemployed who are apparently bankrupting the country.....This despite accounting for just 10% of the benefits budget....Statistically the real drain in terms of benefits are OAPs and yet they are the only group who have been ring fenced in terms of the benefits cuts....Not advocating slashing pensions btw but a nasty and clever govt finding a scapegoat to deflect attention from the monstrous cost of state pensions. (wonder if it has anything to do with the grey vote, hmmmm)

The OAPs can't help it, much like genuine job seekers and those who don't have the capacity to work. People accept their taxes go towards such worthy causes.

It's those who have no intention of working who (most) people can't stand.

 

[Mainze]

Great idea.

It will probably cause a few riots though in the proletariat housing estates.

I suppose they could be employed to clean up afterwards like.

 

[kensplace]

Agreed, I suggested people might be able to clock in at some sort of existing electronic point each day instead.

Do you agree those who have been unemployed for three years should be forced to get up early each weekday and clock on, if the resources were made available for them to do so?

Only if they target those with a clean health record, who are young, who have never had a job, those with attitude problems standing around outside with cans of lager and dogs etc,those who left school didn't go into any training, education or job, and stayed on the dole for years.

But the days of the dwp doing the right thing are long gone.

 

[tiptoad]

Agreed, I suggested people might be able to clock in at some sort of existing electronic point each day instead.

Why not just put an electronic tag on their ankles, like common criminals?

You'd f***ing love that.

 

[dirty bristow]

Why not just put an electronic tag on their ankles, like common criminals?

You'd f***ing love that.

Being fair, many are.

 

[monkeytassle]

It is slightly ironic that everyone is hammering the unemployed who are apparently bankrupting the country.....This despite accounting for just 10% of the benefits budget....Statistically the real drain in terms of benefits are OAPs and yet they are the only group who have been ring fenced in terms of the benefits cuts....Not advocating slashing pensions btw but a nasty and clever govt finding a scapegoat to deflect attention from the monstrous cost of state pensions. (wonder if it has anything to do with the grey vote, hmmmm)

Biggest vote and biggest drain. Also one of the biggest beneficiaries of the housing boom. Not that I'm advocating hammering pensions. It might be why we see inheritance tax increase.....[DOUBLEPOST=1380653479][/DOUBLEPOST]

Why not just put an electronic tag on their ankles, like common criminals?

You'd f***ing love that.

What are you always so disagreeable.

 

[tiptoad]

Being fair, many are.

A very fair point. They'll already be tagged, so I admit there'll be some savings there.