Is there a third case scenario?

chriswallace85

chriswallace85

Striker
Or is one of these two correct...

Over 15 months, Tony Mowbray got the most he could out of this squad, with the players he had available. We're a young side, lacking key players, and we're not immune to being bullied at this level, which at times has led to some inconsistent runs of form. Michael Beale, with the same limitations, has also struggled to find consistency with this Sunderland squad.


Over 15 months, despite going long periods without a proven striker, an experienced holding midfielder, and two specialist centre halves, Tony Mowbray, should have been getting more out of this squad - this season in particular. Likewise, Michael Beale, with the problems, should be getting more out of this squad.
 


chriswallace85 said:
Or is one of these two correct...

Over 15 months, Tony Mowbray got the most he could out of this squad, with the players he had available. We're a young side, lacking key players, and we're not immune to being bullied at this level, which at times has led to some inconsistent runs of form. Michael Beale, with the same limitations, has also struggled to find consistency with this Sunderland squad.


Over 15 months, despite going long periods without a proven striker, an experienced holding midfielder, and two specialist centre halves, Tony Mowbray, should have been getting more out of this squad - this season in particular. Likewise, Michael Beale, with the problems, should be getting more out of this squad.
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There isn't a doubt in my mind that this team/squad should be performing much better than it currently is. That it isn't is down to the manager/head coach/coaching team imo.
 
I think both are massively negative slants.

Mowbray did well, created massive value in a couple of players but was unable to address other issues like squad integration, solidarity through tactics and was happy to play games in the media.

Beale has tried to change the style and was welcomed by a mass uproar.

The players have outperformed their cost very well.

None of this is end-of-world stuff, we just need to continue to progress.
 
HABA87 said:
If LND was fit all last season we'd have been pushing for top 2 IMO.
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We certainly should have been aye. Last season was our opportunity like. I always felt 2nd season syndrome could be a factor, though I actually thought we would have lost Clarke by now - can you imagine if we had? :lol:
 
chriswallace85 said:
Or is one of these two correct...

Over 15 months, Tony Mowbray got the most he could out of this squad, with the players he had available. We're a young side, lacking key players, and we're not immune to being bullied at this level, which at times has led to some inconsistent runs of form. Michael Beale, with the same limitations, has also struggled to find consistency with this Sunderland squad.


Over 15 months, despite going long periods without a proven striker, an experienced holding midfielder, and two specialist centre halves, Tony Mowbray, should have been getting more out of this squad - this season in particular. Likewise, Michael Beale, with the problems, should be getting more out of this squad.
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Over 15 months, Tony Mowbray got the most he could out of this squad,despite going long periods without a proven striker, an experienced holding midfielder, and two specialist centre halves. We're a young side, lacking key players, and we're not immune to being bullied at this level, which at times has led to some inconsistent runs of form. Michael Beale, with the same limitations, has killed camaraderie, team spirit and self belief in the Sunderland squad.
 
bat_finchale said:
Over 15 months, Tony Mowbray got the most he could out of this squad,despite going long periods without a proven striker, an experienced holding midfielder, and two specialist centre halves. We're a young side, lacking key players, and we're not immune to being bullied at this level, which at times has led to some inconsistent runs of form. Michael Beale, with the same limitations, has killed camaraderie, team spirit and self belief in the Sunderland squad.
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:lol: Very good.
 
There’s two other factors worth a mention.

1) Dodds and Proctor are a common denominator between Mowbray and Beale. I think they respected Mowbray’s experience
2) I heard Mowbray was not well before he left us. Maybe that impacted our performances in his final games.
 
Mowbray did well last season playing without a striker, but couldn't get us going any other way. Tried to do some inverted full back nonsense, presumably to make up for the lack of a holding midfielder, and it just did not work at all.

I have no doubt Beale is a good coach, there's enough evidence of that throughout his career. I'm just really not sure he's good enough to be Head Coach.

The fans didn't want him, haven't really given him a chance, and he's shown nothing on the pitch to suggest he's the right man. As well as numerous gaffes ignoring what's going on on the pitch.
 
Over 15 months Mowbray surpassed expectation by guiding a young, newly promoted side to playoffs. Despite a late dip in form, he turned back round fairly quickly, his young side finished in a play off position before losing over two legs to Luton who went on to win promotion.

After a strong start the the campaign, particularly the month of September that returned 4 wins from 5 with 14 goals scored without a striker, his form levelled out, and despite showing prior he could halt a form dip he was sacked for underperforming.

Beale, with the same squad, until additions were brought in, came in with low expectations and has still managed to under perform. The side who scored 14 in 5 in September has been incapable of creating an xG of over 1 in the vast majority of games and there’s been no sign of any sort of turnaround Mowbray showed under his tenure. SAFC’s lofty position of 10th, continues to be propped up by Mowbray’s early season form.

Whilst Mowbray’s performance was deemed a failure due to underperformance, Beale’s underperformance and subsequent fall down the league is considered acceptable because of a lack of strikers.
 
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Mackem00 said:
What could a third suggestion be? It's either down to recruitment or the coaching. Unless you think the players aren't good enough. I'd argue they've already proven to be up to the job tbh.
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So would I. On numerous occasions. And yet we've still been consistently inconsistent.

So yeah, it probably is recruitment or coaching, with injuries factored in also.

I'd have been inclined to blame the coaching. I certainly did under Mowbray as I think most are aware. But this is two coaches now with the same issues. So that perhaps suggests that for one reason or another the playing squad isn't quite strong enough, as talented as it might be.
 
We had a better squad last season in the main as well, which has meant both Mowbray and Beale have had a tougher job. We had Stewart and Simms for half of it, plus Diallo (I refuse to call him Amad as if I’m mates with him). Recruitment is to blame for that. That said I do agree the current squad should be doing better, even if it was just performance wise. The most alarming thing for me is the difference in how we play compared to last season and even at the start of this one.
 
Post in thread 'Michael Beale' Michael Beale

Just posted this on another thread.

On balance, I think it's more likely than not that the players & the coaching staff (and for that matter everyone else associated with the club) are trying their best. We weren't good enough to get promoted last season, nor is it looking like we'll be good enough this season, so far.

In relative terms the squad was cheaply assembled & its value has substantially increased. Hats off to those responsible for that.

However, it's patently still not good enough, to me. It's not a million miles away from being good enough, but it's not quite there yet.

Extra quality & experience are needed, in my view. That can't happen this season (unless Mundle and/or Styles suddenly turn out to be world beaters, which seems fanciful). Hopefully, it will be properly addressed in the summer.

For now, why not experiment a bit? Try O'Nien in the defensive midfield role, chuck Patto up front (attempted humour alert!) but don't do nothing.
 
Mowbray for a time got a lot out of this squad but then ran out of ideas

Beale isn’t getting enough out of the squad and it seems isn’t capable of doing so as a head coach

Speakman has left us short on some key areas which us hindering our progress

The players are at times pushovers on the pitch and need to toughen up

Everyone can have their share of the blame as far as I’m concerned
 
chriswallace85 said:
So would I. On numerous occasions. And yet we've still been consistently inconsistent.

So yeah, it probably is recruitment or coaching, with injuries factored in also.

I'd have been inclined to blame the coaching. I certainly did under Mowbray as I think most are aware. But this is two coaches now with the same issues. So that perhaps suggests that for one reason or another the playing squad isn't quite strong enough, as talented as it might be.
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Problem is now we are inconsistent at best and playing far worse football even if we have a rare decent half. Only one thing has changed to reach this point. For the first time in a long time we are heading into games rightfully expecting the very worst we can put out.
 

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