poyet

[RichD]

Yeah, because setting up to be defensively solid is such an out of date thing in a time where Pulis is winning manager of the season and José 'I prefer to win 1-0' Mourinho is arguably the greatest manager of our time.

You hit the nail on the head when you said the word WIN ! Something Monurinho and Pulis are far better than poyet at

 

[redgauntlet]

If you look at our current strongest x11 and the bench we could put out when everyone is fit (personal opinion of course)

-------Pantillimon--------
Jones O'Shea Brown PvA
-Larsson Catts* Johnson-
--------Giaccherini--------
------Defoe Fletcher------

Subs: Mannone, Vergini, Reveillere, Gomez, Rodwell, Alvarez, Wickham.

*Catts will sit deeper making it more of a diamond and Johnson/Giacc can interlink and swap positions now and again.


There is an argument that we only need 1 or 2 quality players every window to keep on improving. I personally think that is a very decent 8th-14th position team and not our current relegation candidate team and gives us a solid basis to improve year on year.

There some sick notes among that lot.

 

[Travis]

Is starting to come to grips the level of player needed to get a Top 10 finnish in the Premier league, he has made his mistakes which he going to make as he has no managerial experience at this level. How long does it take to build a team of the level we expect when we can only spend 10-15 million every transfer window, if that? 8 or 9 players will take about 4 years. No wonder we have players we cant move on when we bought 14 average players in in one transfer window. I think Gus will get it right but its going to take a few seasons.(problem is if we go down the process starts again)

1. Litmanen
2. Hyppia
3. Jääskeläinen
4. Forssel
5. Tainio
6. Top 5 is as far as I can get....

 

[McMackem]

I suspect in the long term unlike all (?) of his predecessors; Gus will do well, I just don't know if it will be with us. I don't think he will survive dropping out of the top flight and I don't know if he has the patient for the alleged/apparent tightening of the pursestrings. I find it bizarre that we backed FFP in the Premier when we are exactly the level of club that gains least - the bigger PL clubs all ready have the higher expenditure and those promoted can spend spend spend under the rules. We would only have benefited if gate money was still the most important component of income.

 

[CARLOS CLASS]

What style works perfectly with this current crop of players? There are many weak areas, he has to come up with systems that can help us to be competitive and solid. I think Poyet is doing the right thing by forcing systems on them rather than the other way round. Players need to be adaptable. They need to learn, and the ones best at learning are the ones who have thrived. Cattermole knows how to play his role perfectly and is rarely anything but brilliant. Larsson has adapted to centre midfield and does his job really well. These are the players you need, not the ones who refuse to adapt because it's not their cup of tea.

In the long-term it's better for a manager to stick to his philosophy, otherwise you're just letting the players constantly dictate where/how they play. There won't be any harmony throughout the team if everyone is not focused on this. You need discipline throughout the team to build a strong side.

I bet you believe election promises from politicians too!

 

[Abdoujaparov]

In these endless threads on Gus and his system I never understand why there isn't any discussion of how other managers will simply suss it out and plan accordingly to neutralize it. At least the better ones will. They already do. It is the quality of the players on the field that need to be better than those of other teams if we want to finish higher up the league. Systems are secondary to this obvious fact. Peter Reid's team had better players than those we have now. And so we finished in the top half.

Teams already know how to nullify us, they sit off until just inside their own half, keep their lines tight and, at least until Defoe joined, squeeze us because they know we've got no pace and no forwards that will run in behind. This results in us doing our usual of passing across the back four, into midfield, our forwards play statues and we either knock it back across the midfield and defence again or try a speculative long ball that is easy to snuff out.

I think that's been a repeating pattern that has made up huge chunks of most games this season, as we've proved that we can't play through teams, we can't play behind teams and we lack any sort of pace to scare a defence.

 

[KNGHTHOOD]

Ok sit 13th-18th every season if you want , but its the the only way to get to the top half.

Don't know how some club hasn't employed you yet. Seem to know how to solve these football problems.

 

[Angelos]

What style works perfectly with this current crop of players? There are many weak areas, he has to come up with systems that can help us to be competitive and solid. I think Poyet is doing the right thing by forcing systems on them rather than the other way round. Players need to be adaptable. They need to learn, and the ones best at learning are the ones who have thrived. Cattermole knows how to play his role perfectly and is rarely anything but brilliant. Larsson has adapted to centre midfield and does his job really well. These are the players you need, not the ones who refuse to adapt because it's not their cup of tea.

In the long-term it's better for a manager to stick to his philosophy, otherwise you're just letting the players constantly dictate where/how they play. There won't be any harmony throughout the team if everyone is not focused on this. You need discipline throughout the team to build a strong side.

It will be good in the long term for Poyet to stick to his 'philosophy', he'll get a canny pay out. His tactics suit away games fine, but at home were playing for draws against teams like Fulham
Surely a good coach can adapt his side to each game?

 

[West Winger]

I know its shite. The players arnt comfortable with the system yet. Thats why Gus asks for patience, i believe it will come come good but its going to take time or an exceptional playmaker in the middle of park.

I'm as big a supporter of Poyet on here as anyone but that statement is utter shite.

He's been here now for almost 18 months And had nigh on 70 games as our manager. If the players aren't comfortable by now then something is seriously wrong somewhere.

 

[safcpauluk]

Don't know how some club hasn't employed you yet. Seem to know how to solve these football problems.

True, and i've only played youth football for a club before. Although my grandad and his brother played professionally in the northeast. Ive just sat back and looked at the bigger picture and i know its dross at the moment but this philosophy is shared by Chelsea & Tottenham and when it works it will get better, we need better quality of players to implement it probably.

I'm as big a supporter of Poyet on here as anyone but that statement is utter shite.

He's been here now for almost 18 months And had nigh on 70 games as our manager. If the players aren't comfortable by now then something is seriously wrong somewhere.

Yeah, the players except for a few of them. Sorry but 18 months and 70 games isnt enough time to instill a different philosophy on a club, ask alex Ferguson how long it takes.

 

[RightFootLeftFoot]

Is starting to come to grips the level of player needed to get a Top 10 finnish in the Premier league, he has made his mistakes which he going to make as he has no managerial experience at this level. How long does it take to build a team of the level we expect when we can only spend 10-15 million every transfer window, if that? 8 or 9 players will take about 4 years. No wonder we have players we cant move on when we bought 14 average players in in one transfer window. I think Gus will get it right but its going to take a few seasons.(problem is if we go down the process starts again)

Not sure about that like, since we seem to see Bridcutt and Buckley every week without fail.

 

[RichD]

True, and i've only played youth football for a club before. Although my grandad and his brother played professionally in the northeast. Ive just sat back and looked at the bigger picture and i know its dross at the moment but this philosophy is shared by Chelsea & Tottenham and when it works it will get better, we need better quality of players to implement it probably.



Yeah, the players except for a few of them. Sorry but 18 months and 70 games isnt enough time to instill a different philosophy on a club, ask alex Ferguson how long it takes.

Ferguson took over from Ron Atkinson who had Man utd second bottom of the old 1st Division, Big Ron had just sold off their two best players in Ray Wilkins and Mark Hughes just before he got the boot.

Fegie took over and took Man Utd to 11th place in the league that season, the following season he had Man utd as high as 2nd place at one point but fell away to 11th again "theses were the days when Liverpool were kings in the league" he also had to sort out a massive boozing and gambling culture at the club left behind by Ron Atkinson.

Now all I'm saying is When Fegie took over he Got Man utd to 11th in his first couple of seasons in charge , plus he did have a long term plan to massively change the club including new training ground, putting more time into the Youth set up (and we all know how well that went) and bring in new long term signings like Gary Pallister and Steve Bruce..I just can't see the similarity between Fergie and Poyet...if you think I'm wrong please let me know what plan Poyet has done up to now which is taking the club forward ?

 

[Perryqhill]

I think this is a very fair way of putting it. He's inexperienced and can be forgiven for making some mistakes along the way, and what manager hasn't made some mistakes in their first stint managing a top level club? What grated me about Bruce and MON was their conservatism and old-fashioned ideas about things. They had no real long-term plan for the club, they rarely filled me with optimism for the future. I don't see why Poyet can be criticised for 'learning on the job'. Of course he's learning on the job, I'd be far more worried if he wasn't learning! This is why I see him as a more progressive manager than Bruce or MON, for instance. It felt like they'd already made up their minds about things and were only going to lead us to stagnation. I have no problems giving Poyet time, he's got a vision and some fresh ideas about where this club can go. There's an arrogance about him at times, but all of the top managers are arrogant and stubborn. Look no further than Mourinho, Ferguson and Wenger.

The vision he's just completely changed, which he wouldn't budge from previously? He's completely winging it right now in the hope we hit some form, don't insult people telling them he has some kind of vision.

 

[safcpauluk]

Ferguson took over from Ron Atkinson who had Man utd second bottom of the old 1st Division, Big Ron had just sold off their two best players in Ray Wilkins and Mark Hughes just before he got the boot.

Fegie took over and took Man Utd to 11th place in the league that season, the following season he had Man utd as high as 2nd place at one point but fell away to 11th again "theses were the days when Liverpool were kings in the league" he also had to sort out a massive boozing and gambling culture at the club left behind by Ron Atkinson.

Now all I'm saying is When Fegie took over he Got Man utd to 11th in his first couple of seasons in charge , plus he did have a long term plan to massively change the club including new training ground, putting more time into the Youth set up (and we all know how well that went) and bring in new long term signings like Gary Pallister and Steve Bruce..I just can't see the similarity between Fergie and Poyet...if you think I'm wrong please let me know what plan Poyet has done up to now which is taking the club forward ?

No i agree gus is no alex Ferguson. ...but it does take time to implement a style or philosophy.

The vision he's just completely changed, which he wouldn't budge from previously? He's completely winging it right now in the hope we hit some form, don't insult people telling them he has some kind of vision.

I still think he will instill his "keep ball, , safety first" hard to beat approach. He changed just because defoe has said he plays better with someone along side him.

 

[Perryqhill]

I still think he will instill his "keep ball, , safety first" hard to beat approach. He changed just because defoe has said he plays better with someone along side him.

Which most of us wouldn't mind if we were any good at it and didn't get pressed into our own half before thumping it forward anyway. Defoe, like Fletcher and Wickham and probably Altidore will play better with a partner or some support and all would benefit from getting the ball into attacking positions more often before our opponents are settled into position. We don't have to be direct or punting it forward, but unless we change that we'll all be clinging to the hope Defoe is razor sharp and able to pounce on any little opportunity, as he too will almost be as isolated as previous strikers.

No i agree gus is no alex Ferguson. ...but it does take time to implement a style or philosophy.

.

I agree, though you do need to be seeing some positive signs and the Ferguson comparison gets on my tits as it's always thrown around when a manager isn't doing what he should be. My problem with Gus in that respect is in terms of style of play we've gone massively backwards, and Gus' rants and actions don't give me the impression he's a man with a plan anymore. There do need to be some signs of progress other than simply being hard to beat by virtue of generally having nine men behind the ball.

 

[Hongkongphooey]

To keep the wind off the little lad?

 

[driver]

I think this is a very fair way of putting it. He's inexperienced and can be forgiven for making some mistakes along the way, and what manager hasn't made some mistakes in their first stint managing a top level club? What grated me about Bruce and MON was their conservatism and old-fashioned ideas about things. They had no real long-term plan for the club, they rarely filled me with optimism for the future. I don't see why Poyet can be criticised for 'learning on the job'. Of course he's learning on the job, I'd be far more worried if he wasn't learning! This is why I see him as a more progressive manager than Bruce or MON, for instance. It felt like they'd already made up their minds about things and were only going to lead us to stagnation. I have no problems giving Poyet time, he's got a vision and some fresh ideas about where this club can go. There's an arrogance about him at times, but all of the top managers are arrogant and stubborn. Look no further than Mourinho, Ferguson and Wenger.

Ok give me an example of how"He,s learning on the job"