"Pre season results don't matter"

[not spavin]

I'm not missing any point. I just think you are being overly negative. Dick being manager is already a step up from last season, as are the signings so far and (hopefully) there's others to come. I think the timing of your little outburst has meant that some people have rightly or wrongly thought you've based it on the recent games and Doncaster was the final straw. I can see how that could have happened.

I think Congerton is doing a poor job. His first window was an utter shambles, his second was a curates egg due to Defoe's unfathomable contract, and his third is following much the same pattern as the first.

It's not just signings. It's the Alvarez debacle, the apparent lack of a Plan B once Advocaat retired, the failure to land Richards after blaming Poyet first time around. I don't especially rate Richards fwiw, but Congerton used his name to prove how everything was Poyet's fault. And now he doesn't want him?

He came to us with an iffy CV and he's living up to those standards.

You've said that you're optimistic in part because Advocaat is a major upgrade on Poyet - and I agree. My issue is that Congerton has Poyet-esque pedigree, and his role apparently outranks the coaching role.

Fair enough, an honest view from last night.

Last night wasn't great by any stretch, we were often ponderous in possession in midfield & our defence looked wide open, particularly in the first half. I don't think the formation suited us & thats a concern, we need to get the balance right with the front 3. Defoes a waste playing wide & first half we played Johnson through the middle & he looked lost. It's a concern that Dick doesn't seem to know who his front 3 is. IMO getting another wide player similar to Lens is the priority.

On the positives, we attacked with real pace, Lens was as happy taking (and beating) players down the outside or cutting in & making things happen. He seems to have an understanding already with PVA so he'll be difficult to double up on. kaboul didn't do much but strolled through the match and my impression is that he'll be a real leader. Something we've lacked.

I'm confident in DA that he'll get the defence organised, just as he did last season so I'm not concerned about that element of our performance. I also think that PVA & lens will stretch teams & create chances, plus they'll create space for Johnson to exploit.

We still look a bottom half team but we already look a better side than last season & I expect at least 1 perminant & 2 loan signings before the window closes.

And what if we don't bring in three players?

I think that's where you and I really differ. We both think the team isn't good enough. You assume we will bring in 3 players that are fit for purpose, but I have no confidence that we will. iirc It was this stage in the proceedings that we brought in Alvarez - a panic signing in every sense - and Buckley.

 

[NeilP]

Fair enough, an honest view from last night.

Thanks for that, I actually feel a tiny bit more optimistic but I still feel very worried we're almost starting the season and we don't really understand yet how to play to our strengths, or even know what our strengths are. If we're playing Defoe we have to do it so it counts, work out how to get him into scoring positions but it sounds like Lens will help there provided Defoe isn't stranded out on the wing. I think I place a really high value on these pre-season games. I see them as dress rehearsals and I just don't get the feeling we really learn enough from them, maybe we just don't have the players who can adapt but that's just as frustrating.

 

[walesie]

I think Congerton is doing a poor job. His first window was an utter shambles, his second was a curates egg due to Defoe's unfathomable contract, and his third is following much the same pattern as the first.

It's not just signings. It's the Alvarez debacle, the apparent lack of a Plan B once Advocaat retired, the failure to land Richards after blaming Poyet first time around. I don't especially rate Richards fwiw, but Congerton used his name to prove how everything was Poyet's fault. And now he doesn't want him?

He came to us with an iffy CV and he's living up to those standards.

You've said that you're optimistic in part because Advocaat is a major upgrade on Poyet - and I agree. My issue is that Congerton has Poyet-esque pedigree, and his role apparently outranks the coaching role.



And what if we don't bring in three players?

I think that's where you and I really differ. We both think the team isn't good enough. You assume we will bring in 3 players that are fit for purpose, but I have no confidence that we will. iirc It was this stage in the proceedings that we brought in Alvarez - a panic signing in every sense - and Buckley.

I think we've enough to stay up but the quality of the next3 will determine how comfortablely we do.

 

[not spavin]

I think we've enough to stay up but the quality of the next3 will determine how comfortablely we do.

I agree, in the sense that we stayed up last season and have strengthen in Kaboul and Lens (don't know about Matthews). However, it'll be another massive struggle.

If we sign 3 more players of first team quality, everything changes. I think that's a pretty huge 'if' - hence the OP.

 

[walesie]

Thanks for that, I actually feel a tiny bit more optimistic but I still feel very worried we're almost starting the season and we don't really understand yet how to play to our strengths, or even know what our strengths are. If we're playing Defoe we have to do it so it counts, work out how to get him into scoring positions but it sounds like Lens will help there provided Defoe isn't stranded out on the wing. I think I place a really high value on these pre-season games. I see them as dress rehearsals and I just don't get the feeling we really learn enough from them, maybe we just don't have the players who can adapt but that's just as frustrating.

I agree, but I do think we were trying things last night (Johnson in the middle) that we won't when it matters so we will have learned something. Hopefully the forwards will have learned to maker uns to the near post too as lens seems to love those crosses

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

Every shit pre-season is swept away with this line, right until the shit pre-season inevitably gives way to a shit actual season.

We're having a shit pre-season because we can't create chances, can't keep clean sheets and can't score goals. That's because our players are shit and we have - yet again - approached the transfer window like it's a lass at a disco and we're a sweaty virgin.

We've performed triage on a Championship-standard defence and spent real money on Lens. And surprise surprise; we look absolutely shit aside from Lens.

It's the 29th of July. If we want to make to 10 years in the Premier League, we need to stop f***ing about and sign some players who are good enough for the Premier League. Not players who were good enough when Westlife were popular, not good enough in Crete, not good enough when they reach puberty - good enough now.

Here's an idea.

Advocaat seems to know what he wants. How about giving him an iPhone and a chequebook, sending Congerton, Short and all of the other fuckwits out for sandwiches and let an actual football man to sign actual footballers. Tell Advocaat to text Congerton when he's a) finished and b) is ready for his tuna melt.

In 2016 we could finish below Bournemouth. f***ing Bournemouth. Fuck systems. Fuck sporting directors. We need some people who are good at playing football, and we need them now.

I don't think pre season results matter at all. Take the Fulham home game under Di Canio, had that been a pre season game I'd have been well happy despite the defeat, we controlled the game, looked canny and their goal came from the one touch they managed in our box all game (from a corner iirc). That would be fine at pre season stage.

The thing that concerns me isn't the results but the performances. As the lads regain their match sharpness we should be seeing signs of them gelling as a unit, partnerships developing, touch improving. This is especially the cases since, as you mention, we don't even have many new players (and up until yesterday had only fielded one genuine new signing).

I wouldn't mind if we were looking canny but teams a bit ahead fitness wise or on a lucky day sneaked a win. Alas that hasn't been the case. The frustrating thing is that we all knew it was coming. The way we are playing this pre season mirrors how we played a lot last season and why wouldn't it? By and large we've got the same players. Apparently when they get fitness back they'll be better even though they've been back in training for quite a while now, that was their 5th game and Lens who wasn't fit enough for the Toronto game strolled on and showed the lot of them up.

It's not rant-worthy, just a bit depressing that we so far haven't really managed to improve the side too much. I just hope that the recruitment department (and whatever you call the department that gets rid of the shite) comes up trump in the next month or else it's another season of the same shit, especially if we end up losing Johnson.

It's too early to panic and we should be capable of staying up with the team as it is, but I think we had all hoped to see us in a better position at this stage with the season kicking off (with winnable games before the window shuts) next weekend

 

[Zidane]

I've always completely disagreed with the statement nothing can be seen from preseason results.

I generally watch 1 or 2 games and you can tell if it's going to be a promising season or a battle. And my preseason prediction of battle has been correct every time.

And for what's its worth I'm predicting another battle with a dull team that struggles to score goals.

(Unless we spend £20m on new rapid strikers and midfielders in next few weeks.)

 

[not spavin]

A timely bump.

Let's lock Congers on a cupboard for the rest of August and leave it to Advocaat. It has been another summer of failure, we can't afford to wait any longer.

 

[Deleted member 26022]

A timely bump.

Let's lock Congers on a cupboard for the rest of August and leave it to Advocaat. It has been another summer of failure, we can't afford to wait any longer.

is the correct answer.

 

[RichD]

Lets hope so........

 

[Fetch Fletch]

A timely bump.

Let's lock Congers on a cupboard for the rest of August and leave it to Advocaat. It has been another summer of failure, we can't afford to wait any longer.

We should show Ellis what a cheque book looks like too!

 

[not spavin]

Currently below Bournemouth. They have a game in hand.