New day, new migrants.

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Mike J said:
some of the issues are as you point out the lack of facilities, I have no idea what provisions if any are available in a turkey, but I would find it hard to believe people would risk their own lives and their children's life's if they felt safe and secure. We need to be doing all we can to help, and yes I agree giving them a place of safety as soon as possible, but then I think we as the UK need to take some of the people in.
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I dont disagree with any of that. I do have an issue with your original post which implied that everyone who doesnt want to open the doors to all migrants - and probably pick them up at their borders - is a heartless bastard. The people who carry the most responsibility for that child lying dead on a beach are his parents who embarked on a dinghy from a holiday resort - a f***ing holiday resort not a war zone!
 
Harry Angstrom said:
Im not blaming the immigrants and everything you say is correct. I'm blaming the institutions for allowing this to happen.

My point would be that to attract decent staff the restaurants would have to pay people better wages. The diners in the restaurants would have to pay more but the money would be transferred down the scale. We are living in a get it cheap as possible economy and this is underpinned by a massive reserve of cheap foreign labour.

IMHO. I am sure the country would be poorer and people wouldn't have as much but housing costs would be less, thus leaving more money in the pockets of the poorer and taking it from the wealthy.

It will never happen because the horse has bolted but that is my objection to people who want to come over here and graft harder than the locals.
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I agree with all of that.

Market Where? said:
I dont disagree with any of that. I do have an issue with your original post which implied that everyone who doesnt want to open the doors to all migrants - and probably pick them up at their borders - is a heartless bastard. The people who carry the most responsibility for that child lying dead on a beach are his parents who embarked on a dinghy from a holiday resort - a f***ing holiday resort not a war zone!
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i wouldn't open the doors to all migrants, I think as a previous post has pointed out one of the issues is understanding who is in genuine peril and who is an economic migrant, two very different things, but trying to identify those that need our help urgently and those that are safe is very difficult.

I have no idea why the parents would risk the life of thier child unless they truly felt in danger etc.
 
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Arthur80 said:
But quite willing to leave their families in war zone, then risk crossing numerous safe countries to escape war. These refugees become economic migrants as soon as they decide to leave the safe countries they're in.
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Exactly my point- One that the lefty nutjobs on here conveniently choose to ignore- The migrants have found 'safety' in Turkey, in Hungary etc- but they choose to risk their lives again and like the child in the pictures die because the safety they have arrived at isnt as appealing as Germany or GB.....And those who are saying its fair we take 100,000 etc...It doesnt stop there. They go on to have far bigger families than the norm .
 
Harry Angstrom said:
Im not blaming the immigrants and everything you say is correct. I'm blaming the institutions for allowing this to happen.

My point would be that to attract decent staff the restaurants would have to pay people better wages. The diners in the restaurants would have to pay more but the money would be transferred down the scale. We are living in a get it cheap as possible economy and this is underpinned by a massive reserve of cheap foreign labour.

IMHO. I am sure the country would be poorer and people wouldn't have as much but housing costs would be less, thus leaving more money in the pockets of the poorer and taking it from the wealthy.

It will never happen because the horse has bolted but that is my objection to people who want to come over here and graft harder than the locals.
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Surely if you pay ever incresing wages then it is even more attractive for immigrants to go to the UK? Not to mention that poverty in the UK is defined as relative not absolute so there would be a massive clamour to increase benefits to lift people out of "poverty" and the lazy bastards would have their differential restored and then still not take the higher paying jobs as it would still be beneath them.
 
Harry Angstrom said:
It could be argued that this could be done by not allowing one refugee entry into Europe.

The Aussies did it.
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I think if we look at people as refugees or economic migrants that's helps to paint a clear picture, I think we should be open to re-homing refugees who are in genuine peril, but we should absolute have a plan and facilities to do so in line with the rest of Europe. We should not have open borders to everybody.
 
Harry Angstrom said:
It could be argued that this could be done by not allowing one refugee entry into Europe.

The Aussies did it.
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In much the same way as we're told not to give free money to homeless people as they should ask for help to sort their lives out.
If a homeless fella rocked up on my doorstep trying to break in demanding a room, they'd get a free windmill on the house.
 
why aren't the middle eastern countries helping out there muslim brothers and sisters at this time of need?
 
Why does Europe have a 'moral responsibility' for the refugee crisis, yet very few voices talk about the'moral responsibility' of Russia and Iran (who are actively propping up Assad), or of Qatar, Turkey and the UAE, who have been backing - either directly or indirectly - ISIS and the other Islamists?

Having witnessed the frenzy of self-flagellation over the past 24 hours, I've come to the conclusion that the response from well-meaning Europeans is basically racist: We expect the highest standards of humanitarianism from Europe; We don't expect the same from Russia, Arab nations or Iran.
 
Mike J said:
I agree with all of that.



i wouldn't open the doors to all migrants, I think as a previous post has pointed out one of the issues is understanding who is in genuine peril and who is an economic migrant, two very different things, but trying to identify those that need our help urgently and those that are safe is very difficult.

I have no idea why the parents would risk the life of thier child unless they truly felt in danger etc.
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As soon as those people boarded a boat in a holiday resort they become economic migrants.
As mentioned above you will not stop this happening by accepting more refugees/ migrants of any ilk - in fact you are going to make it worse just like the Germans have by saying they will accept loads more. unless of course europe is going to start supplying transport at the borders of Syria and the ports of Libya?
Cameron has it right - solve the root cause. The other thing to be sorted out is safe centres at the borders of Syria where people can claim asylum to the EU.
As for Libya - send the boats safely back to Libya. Maybe see if similar large refugee centres can be built in surrounding safer countries - Egypt, Tunisia etc.
 
Mike J said:
The roles paid an average of £7.75 per hour, i happen to know where they all lived, not one of them were in the situation you suggest, one bought his own place in Gateshead with his wife, another lived with his brother. I would suggest before you jump in with incorrect conculsions you maybe question things more deeply!
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Is that enough for someone to live on? Or is it just enough for people paying minimum rent to save up some cash for home
 
Monty Pigeon said:
Why does Europe have a 'moral responsibility' for the refugee crisis, yet very few voices talk about the'moral responsibility' of Russia and Iran (who are actively propping up Assad), or of Qatar, Turkey and the UAE, who have been backing - either directly or indirectly - ISIS and the other Islamists?

Having witnessed the frenzy of self-flagellation over the past 24 hours, I've come to the conclusion that the response from well-meaning Europeans is basically racist: We expect the highest standards of humanitarianism from Europe; We don't expect the same from Russia, Arab nations or Iran.
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What about those that expect the highest level of humanitarianism from all, but are not willing to walk about away because not everybody offers that humanitarianism?
 
Wood Green Mackem said:
Is that enough for someone to live on? Or is it just enough for people paying minimum rent to save up some cash for home
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My opinion is it is enough for somebody to live on, I have lived on less, what is your opinion?

within every business there is a balancing act to be had, as Harry has posted consumers don't want to pay a premium to fund higher wages, so getting the balance right is very difficult. As it happens I didn't get the balance right and had to close the business down.
 
This is just going to get worse. It seems the EU have no real plan what to do? How to stop this happening? How to assist these poor people?
To me because of our stupid involvement in the middle east (without any plan as to what happens after the dictators were ousted) we have a obligation to accept refugees until these countries are deemed safe again.
The free movement of people in the EU has already caused mass immigration here (8 million migrants apparently) 600,000 last year. Countries are being emptied cant be good for them and it isnt good for Europe. Best thing would be to put border controls and limits on the numbers coming here economically and we could accept these poor people in greater numbers than we are now. Then although it goes against not wanting to get involved we have stop this war in Syria and Iraq and the only way to do that is by overwhelming force with some kind of plan for stability afterwards or this will never end.
 
HellsBells said:
You look at this photo and tell me again that it's over-emotive nonsense.

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Come on folks. Look at this picture and tell me you think this is justified to protect our benefits and our borders and our British values.
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I genuinely wonder how many members of the ruling families in Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE etc are looking at that photo and thinking, " you know what, these are fellow Muslims suffering as a direct result of our policies in the region, perhaps we should do something about it".

It's so easy to forget how complicit they are in this whole mess.
 
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