Ched Evans

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Frijj said:
Agreed. Not to mention the Facebook Warriors who constantly share things like 'why don't nurses get paid what footballers do' etc etc



Someones, yes, but not society's. I completely respect that her father will want something far far worse than prison time for her rapist, though.



Does Ched Evans work with vulnerable people in a position of trust, like a police officer, doctor or teacher?
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Can't imagine he'd be invited to any of the appearances at charity functions, visiting sick kids in hospital, doing PR work etc there is an argument that perhaps he used his profile to get girls into bed and probably shouldn't be afforded an oppotunity to do so again.
 


lordy said:
I'd imagine he'd be in contact with junior members of the squad etc, but that didn't really answer my question.

Here's another one for you and please try to answer it, would you allow a convicted rapist to become an MP or Prime Minister even?
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Wouldn't happen cause they would never be elected , but in theory yes if that's what the country wanted
 
lordy said:
I'd imagine he'd be in contact with junior members of the squad etc, but that didn't really answer my question.

Here's another one for you and please try to answer it, would you allow a convicted rapist to become an MP or Prime Minister even?
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I wouldn't. Being a footballer is totally different to being a police officer, doctor, teacher or MP. Those are employees of the state put into positions of trust for the benefit of the state.

gavinmcant said:
Can't imagine he'd be invited to any of the appearances at charity functions, visiting sick kids in hospital, doing PR work etc there is an argument that perhaps he used his profile to get girls into bed and probably shouldn't be afforded an oppotunity to do so again.
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I agree, they won't let him anywhere near the charity/sick kids visits
 
gavinmcant said:
Can't imagine he'd be invited to any of the appearances at charity functions, visiting sick kids in hospital, doing PR work etc there is an argument that perhaps he used his profile to get girls into bed and probably shouldn't be afforded an oppotunity to do so again.
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In the case of the girl he's a lot better looking guy than she is a girl , call me biased but I think had she not known they were footballers there would have been no cry of rape
 
Frijj said:
I wouldn't. Being a footballer is totally different to being a police officer, doctor, teacher or MP. Those are employees of the state put into positions of trust for the benefit of the state.



I agree, they won't let him anywhere near the charity/sick kids visits
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Any PR stuff? Can't see it. It'll be " not you Ched" new strip? " not you Ched" squads doing a autograph thing today " not you Ched". If I were him, I honestly don't think I'd want the level of abuse he'll get or the high profile. I'd not even think about football and would focus on sorting my relationships with family out first and foremost. Any career would be secondary and out of the spotlight.
 
C14R4NSAFC said:
Wouldn't happen cause they would never be elected , but in theory yes if that's what the country wanted
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fair comment, but it seems if there was a public vote in this case theres a good chance he wouldn't be playing. Someone will no doubt take a chance on him but I can't see it being one of the bigger clubs simply because of the split in public opinion.
 
gavinmcant said:
Any PR stuff? Can't see it. It'll be " not you Ched" new strip? " not you Ched" squads doing a autograph thing today " not you Ched". If I were him, I honestly don't think I'd want the level of abuse he'll get or the high profile. I'd not even think about football and would focus on sorting my relationships with family out first and foremost. Any career would be secondary and out of the spotlight.
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If I were him, I'd be concentrating on getting back into football ASAP

even if Sheffield United pay him £10k a week, that's still half a million a year, if he gets a four year contract on that, that's 2 million guaranteed
 
Frijj said:
I wouldn't. Being a footballer is totally different to being a police officer, doctor, teacher or MP. Those are employees of the state put into positions of trust for the benefit of the state.



I agree, they won't let him anywhere near the charity/sick kids visits
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do you not reckon in the light of the whole Saville thing celebrities as a whole should be classed as being in a position of trust (or similar) in the eyes of the law?

I know you'd obviously have to draw the line somewhere but its a serious question.
 
lordy said:
do you not reckon in the light of the whole Saville thing celebrities as a whole should be classed as being in a position of trust (or similar) in the eyes of the law?

I know you'd obviously have to draw the line somewhere but its a serious question.
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Celebrities who have anything to do with vulnerable folk, aye.

Ched Evans is a footballer. He will train with adult men, he will play football with adult men. In no line of his work is it necessary for him to work with children or vulnerable adults.

You can only be in a position of trust if there are specific groups of people over whom you have responsibility and authority.

Teachers are in a position of trust over their classroom students, doctors are in a position of trust over their patients. Footballers are not, and based on that, their past criminal records have no bearing on their ability to conduct their work.
 
Frijj said:
Celebrities who have anything to do with vulnerable folk, aye.

Ched Evans is a footballer. He will train with adult men, he will play football with adult men. In no line of his work is it necessary for him to work with children or vulnerable adults.

You can only be in a position of trust if there are specific groups of people over whom you have responsibility and authority.

Teachers are in a position of trust over their classroom students, doctors are in a position of trust over their patients. Footballers are not, and based on that, their past criminal records have no bearing on their ability to conduct their work.
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its not as black and white (no pun intended) as that though is it, I mean he is going to come into contact with a lot of vulnerable folk, he may train/coach juniors, theres autograph hunters then theres PR, shirt signings, sick kids etc all of which have been mentioned, and this is before you even get to the argument of what message is it sending out to people who will be celebrating him week in week out. As I've said his conviction does seem dodgy and I know he will play again at some level but as he is convicted to me at least I wouldn't be comfortable with him representing my team, if Johnny Evans had been charged and convicted all those years ago do you think we would/should have kept him on?
 
he's a convicted rapist, unless his conviction is quashed / overturned he'll remain so, that's the law.
 
lordy said:
its not as black and white (no pun intended) as that though is it, I mean he is going to come into contact with a lot of vulnerable folk, he may train/coach juniors, theres autograph hunters then theres PR, shirt signings, sick kids etc all of which have been mentioned, and this is before you even get to the argument of what message is it sending out to people who will be celebrating him week in week out. As I've said his conviction does seem dodgy and I know he will play again at some level but as he is convicted to me at least I wouldn't be comfortable with him representing my team, if Johnny Evans had been charged and convicted all those years ago do you think we would/should have kept him on?
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I can't imagine him ever training or coaching the juniors, as their parents may complain. I definitely can't imagine him doing any PR work, signing autographs or going to local hospitals, etc.

They aren't celebrating the fact he is a rapist. They will simply be celebrating the fact that he's scored a goal on the football pitch. I understand they will be celebrating a rapist, but they aren't celebrating that he is one.

The questions in regards to the legitimacy of his conviction isn't something I'd want to get into personally as I don't know enough about the law and I wouldn't want to suggest that the girl involved consented. As a man, rape is something I believe I'll never be able to understand from the victim's viewpoint, so I have no idea how she feels. I will say though that there have been questions raised in regards to what happened that night.

If any player had been charged and convicted of rape, I wouldn't mind him playing for us in the future. As I've said, rape is an awful crime. IMO rapists do not serve long enough prison sentences. The thought of someone close to me being raped is an awful, awful thing. However, I also believe in rehabilitating offenders to go back into whatever work they can find, so long as their crime is not related to it.

As said, I believe the main issue with Evans playing football again is that people do not want him going back to a high-status, well-paid job. I understand that, but he isn't being rewarded for his crime. He is being rewarded, by a business for offering highly skilled and specialised employment.
 
Frijj said:
If I were him, I'd be concentrating on getting back into football ASAP

even if Sheffield United pay him £10k a week, that's still half a million a year, if he gets a four year contract on that, that's 2 million guaranteed
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I doubt he'll be getting £10,000 a week playing for anyone- and doubt anyone would offer him a four year contract. Most contracts include clauses to advertise the club, promote its image at various events and engage in community programmes. He won't be wanted at any of those. His value to the club in terms of selling merchandise? Less than zero I'd argue. Unfit, not trained properly for nearly 3 years, questions over mental state , ability to handle grief. £500 a week for a year.
 
gavinmcant said:
I doubt he'll be getting £10,000 a week playing for anyone- and doubt anyone would offer him a four year contract. Most contracts include clauses to advertise the club, promote its image at various events and engage in community programmes. He won't be wanted at any of those. His value to the club in terms of selling merchandise? Less than zero I'd argue. Unfit, not trained properly for nearly 3 years, questions over mental state , ability to handle grief. £500 a week for a year.
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He'll be on at least ten times that if somewhere offers to take him, IMO. You make very good points in regards to his off-the-pitch value though.
 
C14R4NSAFC said:
60,000 have signed a petition urging Sheffield Utd not to resign him! :?:
What are people's thoughts on this ?

Personally believe he's served his time (and strongly believe he was wrongly convicted)
However could be argued it sets a very bad example of footballers being given opportunities any other convicted person wouldn't
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How can you strongly believe he was wrongly convicted, surely you do not know enough about the case to have such a strong opinion unless you are his solicitor posting on this board which I doubt.
 
Frijj said:
He'll be on at least ten times that if somewhere offers to take him, IMO. You make very good points in regards to his off-the-pitch value though.
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You're probably right mate but if his only offer was £500 a week, would he knock it back in favour of teaching, policing, nursing etc given he can't do any of those things? His options are limited is my point I guess.
 
gavinmcant said:
You're probably right mate but if his only offer was £500 a week, would he knock it back in favour of teaching, policing, nursing etc given he can't do any of those things? His options are limited is my point I guess.
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Oh, definitely. The clubs know his options are very limited. I get the impression that they'd be willing to welcome a professional footballer back into the fold and at least give him a relatively decent salary, all things considered.

I could be looking at that wrong, though. I just think football has accrued a reputation for rehabilitating offenders.
 
From the appeal hearing judgment:

"The applicant and McDonald had spent the evening with friends visiting various licensed premises. At some time shortly before 4am McDonald became separated from the group of friends. The complainant seems to have wandered into his path. They had a conversation and got into a taxi. The taxi driver thought that her upper clothing was somewhat dishevelled. The taxi driver took them to the hotel, where the applicant had booked and paid for a room in McDonald's name. During the taxi journey McDonald sent a text message to the applicant telling him that he had "got a bird" or words to that effect.

The prosecution case was that the applicant had booked the room at the hotel with the main or sole purpose of procuring a girl or girls later that night. According to the Crown's case, both men were on the look-out for any girl who was a suitable target. The complainant had literally stumbled across McDonald's path.

The complainant had no recollection of anything which took place after 3am. That extended to the fact that she and McDonald entered the hotel at 4.15am. The night porter described her as "extremely drunk". That reinforced the Crown's case based on the evidence of witnesses and the CCTV footage before she had arrived at the hotel. While en route to the room the porter heard her say to McDonald "You're not going to leave me, are you?" They entered a bedroom in which various sexual acts took place and eventually they had sexual intercourse.

In the meantime, no doubt in answer to the message that he had received from McDonald, the applicant arrived at the same hotel with two other male friends. He persuaded the night porter to give him a key card to the room occupied by McDonald and the complainant. He said that he had booked the room for a friend who no longer needed it. The applicant entered the room. Sexual intercourse between McDonald and the complainant ceased. The applicant performed oral sex on the complainant and then had vaginal sex with her. While it was taking place the porter went to check what was happening. He waited outside the room for a while and concluded from the noises that he could hear within the room that a couple were having sexual intercourse. No other concerns were raised in his mind.

The applicant's two companions remained outside the hotel. They looked through the bedroom window and filmed what was taking place with a mobile telephone until the curtains to the bedroom were closed.

After about half an hour McDonald left the hotel via the reception. He had a brief word with the night porter, telling him that he should look out for the girl in room 14 (the room in question) because she was sick. The applicant did not leave by the front door; he went out by an emergency exit. McDonald and the applicant met up outside and they returned to the applicant's home.

The complainant said that her next memory was waking up in the hotel room at about 11.30am. She realised that she was alone. She was naked and had urinated in the bed. She had a headache and was confused. She reported the matter to the police."

Note how the defenders of this rapist PoS miss out almost all of the evidence above when stating their case.
Most interesting is that fact that at least some of it was filmed by Evan's cronies - now we haven't seen that video but either (a) the jury saw it and drew their own conclusions or (b) the cronies deleted it -- which in itself raises an obvious inference about how bad it must have looked for Ched.
 
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