Sky News and Hillsborough memorial...

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rowley2 said:
But it did have to do with standing. People can squeeze onto terraces in a way they just cannot squeeze into seats. It is not the standing that causes the problems mind, but the overcrowding it used to allow. I was at Hillsborough as a schoolboy for the Semi in 1973. I ended up thirty yards at least from my starting point near the back after the first goal. Anything could have happened.
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Nope, the disaster had to do with letting too many people into a certain area. It could still potentially happen today in a concourse somewhere if the same mistakes were made. It wouldn't have happened if the end wasn't divided into pens or there were no fences. They're weren't too many fans for the whole of the end. Safe standing is perfectly possible.
 
Manchester Mackem said:
If it went to court who would be put up in front a judge? Genuine question as I'm not sure who it'd be.
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There is such a thing as Corporate Manslaughter in private business, so in this instance it would maybe be the police and possibly the emergency services, but would probably be the FA for holding a semi-final at a ground without the required safety certificate. Ultimately, it was on their watch as the custodians of the tournament, and thinking about it probably the police, too, as they put an inexperienced police officer in charge of a semi-final at a ground with a history of crowd congestion problem: Leeds '87; Tottenham '81.

Seriously, if this was a private company they would have been done and faced charges and rightly so, without a leg to stand on.

And, on top of that the police should certainly be charged with perverting the course of justice.
 
Venkman said:
If I was any other teams' fans, including ours, the results would've been the same.

People need to get the chips off their shoulders about this, it was a massive tragedy and I'm sure, again, fans of any other club would be the same if they had been besmirched in such a heinous manner.

I'm sure someone will bring up Heysel in a minute, the standard riposte.
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Exactly right ...there's some nasty people on this board mind - the classic keyboard warriors who will say any amount of offensive shit under the cloak of being anonymous.....Hillsborough really could have happened to ANY club ...have some respect FFS!
 
Geronimo said:
Absolutely.

But don't think the supporters were blameless either.
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Why are Liverpool fans too blame?

Do you go to the pub before the match and everyone agrees to arrive at the ground in twos and three a couple of minutes after each other to ensure no one gets crushed to death?

Not sure if you're aware but there were road works on the way from Liverpool to Sheffield which held people up, and the only people who said Liverpool fans were drunk in large numbers are the police. Other bystanders said some were having a few beers on grass verges but no mass drunkenness.

The police failed to prevent a build up in the Lepping's Lane end, they failed to close off the gate down the tunnel when they opened the gate outside to let people in and they failed to direct people to the outside pens when they knew from CCTV the central pens were chocker.

Fuck knows how you arrive at the conclusion that the Liverpool fans weren't blameless.
 
Locke's SAFC said:
There is such a thing as Corporate Manslaughter in private business, so in this instance it would maybe be the police and possibly the emergency services, but would probably be the FA for holding a semi-final at a ground without the required safety certificate. Ultimately, it was on their watch as the custodians of the tournament, and thinking about it probably the police, too, as they put an inexperienced police officer in charge of a semi-final at a ground with a history of crowd congestion problem: Leeds '87; Tottenham '81.

Seriously, if this was a private company they would have been done and faced charges and rightly so, without a leg to stand on.

And, on top of that the police should certainly be charged with perverting the course of justice.
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Would it fall to an individual (ie the head of the organisation at the time) who would take the rap for it?
 
Roydo said:
Because they have not had justice. They were blamed for their own deaths for gods sake. Kids mostly.

The original inquests were a sham/cover up/collusion, take your pick. Now the real reasons of death will be investigated in a new inquest, just opened, after 25 years of campaigning for it.

If your brother violently died, witnesses said one thing, the police said another, and the original coroner just took what the police said, concluded that it was pretty much your brothers mates fault, what would you do? Just accept it?

Jeez.
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Is justice an apology and absolving the Liverpool supporters of any blame then? That's happened.

Or do they want somebody to take the blame, and if so who? And what then? Heads to roll? If so, whose? Who can possibly be accountable?

I'm not trying to be funny or owt. I'm just asking. It's not clear to me what justice will or ever can be? It's not clear to a lot of people, which I'm sure breeds cynicism, and hence some animosity, which is s shame. But then I'm sure there'll be some who'll back the campaign, calling for justice, though without themselves truly understanding the goal. It wouldn't surprise me if that included some of the people of Liverpool. It's this word justice. What is it?
 
Manchester Mackem said:
Would it fall to an individual (ie the head of the organisation at the time) who would take the rap for it?
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In a private business it would be the directors of the company - all of them - as ultimately they are the board charged with managing the company's affairs.

I think the police were hopeless and the emergency services not much better, and Sheffield council are possibly involved as Hillsbrough was not up to standard, but in my view the FA would be first in line as it was their competition - ultimately they were the ones promoting the competition and with that comes responsibility.
 
chriswallace85 said:
Is justice an apology and absolving the Liverpool supporters of any blame then? That's happened.

Or do they want somebody to take the blame, and if so who? And what then? Heads to roll? If so, whose? Who can possibly be accountable?

I'm not trying to be funny or owt. I'm just asking. It's not clear to me what justice will or ever can be? It's not clear to a lot of people, which I'm sure breeds cynicism, and hence some animosity, which is s shame. But then I'm sure there'll be some who'll back the campaign, calling for justice, though without themselves truly understanding the goal. It wouldn't surprise me if that included some of the people of Liverpool. It's this word justice. What is it?
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Any police officer who has been part in any kind of cover up, should serve jail time.
 
chriswallace85 said:
Is justice an apology and absolving the Liverpool supporters of any blame then? That's happened.

Or do they want somebody to take the blame, and if so who? And what then? Heads to roll? If so, whose? Who can possibly be accountable?

I'm not trying to be funny or owt. I'm just asking. It's not clear to me what justice will or ever can be? It's not clear to a lot of people, which I'm sure breeds cynicism, and hence some animosity, which is s shame. But then I'm sure there'll be some who'll back the campaign, calling for justice, though without themselves truly understanding the goal. It wouldn't surprise me if that included some of the people of Liverpool. It's this word justice. What is it?
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It's quite simple. 96 people died when they attended a football match. Someone must be held accountable for that. We have the FA promoting the game, the police who are the supposed custodians of law and order, Sheffield Wednesday Football club who wanted the prestige of holding the FA Cup semi final.

It's very f***ing simple unless you are monumentally f***ing stupid: if 96 people die at a football match and no one is held accountable, then fuck the f***ing safety standards and the rest of it, no one cares so if you die at a match tough shite.

In the Western world, mate, we tend to think that justice is a principle worth fighting for and that means when people have failed to undertake their duty, people who are in a position of authority, i.e. gross negligence; then authority must accept the consequences.

If you don't hold authority accountable then what's to stop them doing anything they want - this is a principle that even a burrow owl would understand.
 
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Bollotti said:
It would have happened to any set of supporters. It was an accident waiting to happen. We were at a FA cup semi-final a few years later at Hillsborough.
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It nearly happened to us a year or so before Hillsborough at York. It nearly happened to Newcastle fans at White Hart Lane in the mid 1980s. It nearly happened to Spurs fans at Hillsborough in a cup semi final in 1981.
 
Wise Man Says said:
It nearly happened to us a year or so before Hillsborough at York. It nearly happened to Newcastle fans at White Hart Lane in the mid 1980s. It nearly happened to Spurs fans at Hillsborough in a cup semi final in 1981.
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By the grace of god and all that.

I tell you what, if my child had died in that way, I wouldn't stop until answers were forthcoming etc, I would do everything in my power to keep it in the public eye until some bastard was held accountable.
 
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