Lord's Prayer Banned From Cinemas.

[Dogbark]

Well I don't think praying will physically save anyone unfortunately.


When you decide what the other persons mind is, and frame them into what you're comfortable with them life is very easy, if you ever wanted to leave your comfortable perspective you'd probably be surprised at how weak minded you actually are.

Keep them coming

 

[Deleted User 11453]

You have persuaded yourself that the Judeo christian god exists, or possibly you have been persuaded by your parents that it exists. So you pray to it or , as many would say, talk to yourself. That gives you comfort. Good for you. If you ask me to honestly say what I think I will reply that you are weak minded for believing this. There's no other way to tell you. If you were a 6 year old kid asking if grandma had gone to heaven I may well "yes grandma is with the angels" because kids find death a hard concept to grasp.

We told our kids that nanna was feeding the worms, it's best to be brutally honest.

 

[HellsBells]

We told our kids that nanna was feeding the worms, it's best to be brutally honest.

But if you then also tell them that the birds eat the worms, and then other animals eat birds then Nana has actually given life to so many other things, and then she's actually everywhere. I think that's a lovely message to kids.

 

[girojim]

But if you then also tell them that the birds eat the worms, and then other animals eat birds then Nana has actually given life to so many other things, and then she's actually everywhere. I think that's a lovely message to kids.

What if they're cremated?

We set fire to your nana and burnt her body

 

[Wizards Sleeve]

We told our kids that nanna was feeding the worms, it's best to be brutally honest.

 

[Cockney Mackem]

What if they're cremated?

We set fire to your nana and burnt her body

The good news is, this new vase really looks great on the mantelpiece

 

[jaxaxe]

A church that was founded as a pretext for Henry VIII to divorce a wife he'd lost interest in, and to plunder catholic churches.

Given the number of people who are in their particular sect, they wield enormous influence, including several seats in the House of Lords and control a large chunk of primary education in this country ("Give me a child until he is seven" etc. etc.). Not to mention vast amounts of property (Camels and eyes of needles, anyone ?).

And now they whine, because they try to place an advertisement with a digital marketing company who have a policy of not accepting political or religious adverts.

Perhaps they should show a trailer for the new Star Wars movie before their carol services ? It has as much place in a church as a tedious clip of randoms doing the Lord's Prayer has at a Star Wars movie that people have paid to see.

 

[Deleted User 11453]

A church that was founded as a pretext for Henry VIII to divorce a wife he'd lost interest in, and to plunder catholic churches.

...

I learned from a kid's book that Henry VIII's new church was still Catholic, the Protestant version of the CoE was introduced by Edward VI I think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VI_of_England#Reformation

 

[Cockney Mackem]

("Give me a child until he is seven" etc. etc.).

That's the Catholics iirc

 

[jaxaxe]

I learned from a kid's book that Henry VIII's new church was still Catholic, the Protestant version of the CoE was introduced by Edward VI I think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VI_of_England#Reformation

Henry got his divorce and did well plundering the catholic churches and abbeys.

I don't suppose he gave a shit about the denomination of his newly created church.

That's the Catholics iirc

Same shit, different name...

 

[---Nemo---]

I don't regard those views to be arrogant. I feel like I have provided a structured argument that stands up to analysis.

I like your last point. What would count as proof. Surely an all-powerful God could easily reassure his 21stC flock in any way he sees appropriate. He could convince doubters and non-believers in an instant by announcing some miraculous sign in advance. A snowman with a Sunderland scarf in the garden of every house in the country, perhaps. He never seems interested though. Perhaps he's busy supervising famines, earthquakes and wars....?

There's the problem regarding what would count as evidence right there, finding a snowman in every garden on demand wouldn't prove the existence of a God. Would any form of "miracle" prove the existence of a particular God?

It's not your views that are arrogant, they are simply your beliefs, it's your contemptuously dismissive and arrogant comments toward people who hold a different set of beliefs that I'm commenting on.

What "structured argument" do you produce beyond suggesting anyone who believes in a creator is "away with the fairies"? Makes no odds when Kant and the crew were strutting their stuff, do the tenets of reason and logic change over time? It's entirely possible to attack the arguments for, as many have over the centuries, but to suggest that you have satisfactorily resolved what has been an age old puzzle is a claim too far IMO. Perhaps you should offer of your "proofs" up to a philosophical journal for inspection.

Arrogance? What is more arrogant is believing something which has absolutely no evidence, yet still forcing that belief on our offspring.

The Vatican has recently decreed that the evidence for evolution is compelling, yet the Catholics still believe we have a soul. Does this mean dead Catholics will be sharing heaven with all our ancestors, like ramapithecus, homo habilis etc.? What a bizarre place it must be.

Also, if evolution by natural selection is 'blind', which it is, how did God create us in his image?

I can assure you I do not support indoctrination in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

There's the problem regarding what would count as evidence right there, finding a snowman in every garden on demand wouldn't prove the existence of a God. Would any form of "miracle" prove the existence of a particular God?

It's not your views that are arrogant, they are simply your beliefs, it's your contemptuously dismissive and arrogant comments toward people who hold a different set of beliefs that I'm commenting on.

What "structured argument" do you produce beyond suggesting anyone who believes in a creator is "away with the fairies"? Makes no odds when Kant and the crew were strutting their stuff, do the tenets of reason and logic change over time? It's entirely possible to attack the arguments for, as many have over the centuries, but to suggest that you have satisfactorily resolved what has been an age old puzzle is a claim too far IMO. Perhaps you should offer of your "proofs" up to a philosophical journal for inspection.

Perhaps the snowman argument may not "prove" the existence of any of these gods. It would be good enough for any atheist to sit up and take notice though. It would also push the question of "Does God exist?" To highly likely rather than highly unlikely as it is now. We've declared the experiment in here. Presumably both Allah and Yahweh, being omnipotent, have read this thread. Let's see if it happens tomorrow morning.

I really don't get the arrogance bit but there must be something in it as I am constantly being accused of it on here. It's fascinating how much people who have such strange beliefs are given such special protection.

A person who shouts into their cooker to pray to their God would fall under the definition of mentally ill (psychotic). Yet they do it in a church and it's perfectly acceptable, even encouraged. What difference does the cooker make?

 

[---Nemo---]

A person who shouts into their cooker to pray to their God would fall under the definition of mentally ill (psychotic). Yet they do it in a church and it's perfectly acceptable, even encouraged. What difference does the cooker make?

You tell me. If you whipped your cock out in Tescos you'd be arrested, do it at an orgy and you'd be fine. What a World eh.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Also, if evolution by natural selection is 'blind', which it is, how did God create us in his image?

I don't believe a creator god made us in his image. However, if we consider what might be meant by the word image, there is some reference in the Gospel of Thomas which is effectively a collection of sayings. Thomas means twin as does the other name he is known by which is Didymus. He actual name was Jude so he is actually referred to as Jude the Twin. Jesus had four brothers, James (whose succeeded him as Zadik), Simon, Joses and Jude. It is possible that Jude the Twin was in fact the twin brother of Jesus.

From the Gospel of Thomas (Jude the Twin)

Jesus said, 'I shall give you what no eye has seen and what no ear has heard and what no hand has touched and what has never occurred to the human mind.'

'Have you discovered then the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death.'

Jesus said, 'If they say to you, 'Where did you come from?', say to them, 'We came from the light, the place where the light came into being on its own accord and established itself and became manifest through their image.'

If they ask you, 'What is the sign of your father in you?', say to them, 'It is movement and repose.'

The Gospel of John states:

In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

Our beginning was during conception but our beginning as an independent human being was our birth. Know the image from the beginning at out birth and we will know the image at our death. I think that's what he means. In between the two, everything that was added will be dissolved.

Jesus clearly revealed this image through sight, hearing and touch (feeling not emotion).

 

[Parkmaverick]

But if you then also tell them that the birds eat the worms, and then other animals eat birds then Nana has actually given life to so many other things, and then she's actually everywhere. I think that's a lovely message to kids.

and when they see Lady C eating worms?????????????????

 

[PinzaC55]

Well I don't think praying will physically save anyone unfortunately.


When you decide what the other persons mind is, and frame them into what you're comfortable with them life is very easy, if you ever wanted to leave your comfortable perspective you'd probably be surprised at how weak minded you actually are.

So you weren't persuaded by your parents that YHWH existed ? Or you didn't decide for yourself ? Please let me know how you came to your current set of beliefs then.

We told our kids that nanna was feeding the worms, it's best to be brutally honest.

Holy crap I don't think I would personally be that honest. Maybe tell them she auditioned for the Walking Dead but got turned down.

Perhaps the snowman argument may not "prove" the existence of any of these gods. It would be good enough for any atheist to sit up and take notice though. It would also push the question of "Does God exist?" To highly likely rather than highly unlikely as it is now. We've declared the experiment in here. Presumably both Allah and Yahweh, being omnipotent, have read this thread. Let's see if it happens tomorrow morning.

I really don't get the arrogance bit but there must be something in it as I am constantly being accused of it on here. It's fascinating how much people who have such strange beliefs are given such special protection.

A person who shouts into their cooker to pray to their God would fall under the definition of mentally ill (psychotic). Yet they do it in a church and it's perfectly acceptable, even encouraged. What difference does the cooker make?

TBF when I was a kid and I was in the bathroom my parents used to shout up the stairs "God are you still in there ?" which made me wonder. Mainly why god spent so much time in the netty.

I learned from a kid's book that Henry VIII's new church was still Catholic, the Protestant version of the CoE was introduced by Edward VI I think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VI_of_England#Reformation

Almost as though various kings decided one particular church was a better way to control the masses ?

 

[JonMc]

I really don't get the arrogance bit but there must be something in it as I am constantly being accused of it on here. It's fascinating how much people who have such strange beliefs are given such special protection.

A person who shouts into their cooker to pray to their God would fall under the definition of mentally ill (psychotic). Yet they do it in a church and it's perfectly acceptable, even encouraged. What difference does the cooker make?

Obviously there is something in it and it's got nothing to do with strange belief protection - if you're going to pass jusgement on others then be prepared to be judged yourself (reminds me of a film, that...or even a book). It's because you're an evalgalist who endlessly repeats the words of the atheist 'priests' like Sam Harris who again, you prarphrase in that second statement without anything other than a cursory thought to what they're actually saying.
And it's based on a fallacy because who would call that person mentally ill or 'weak minded'? Indeed, who has the right to when those same definitions would cover someone who smokes (the only purpose of which is to kill oneself slowly and in agony), someone who can't get through a weekend without getting lashed, someone who uses drugs (especially if those drugs mimic psychotic symptoms), someone who constantly has the need to tell the world what they're doing through a social media device, someone who is so narcissistic that they constantly take 'selfies' for the same reason. Someone who invests hours of time and emotion to travel hundreds of miles to watch a shite sports team that will only piss them off week in/week out...anyone who is so vain that they spend large amounts of money to spread fat/glue mixtures over their faces and can't leave the house without putting a mask on first. Anyone who would make a priestess of Kim Kardashian and her ilk and use them as role models. Anyone who risks gambling more than they can afford, anyone who risks decades of investment in property and all of that emotion with their partner for the sake of a shag...they're all mentally ill or weak minded to some degree. They have to be.

No. This is the 21st century and if we are to define any individual (even one who prays to their cooker) as insane or foolish or weak minded because that one action in their daily lives then I say, 'Get to the back of the queue.' Because only in a world that is as batshit crazy as this one would anyone be so hypocritical to criticize them without applying those same definitions to condemn everyone else.
It doesn't matter what definitions of the word lunatic or fool we use - in a world full of lunatics how can one more lunatic be a lunatic? Otherwise we have no choice but to recognise that behaviour as 'a bit eccentric' rather than giving him/her a convenient label to help you to feel superior.

So evangelize by all means but be aware that you're doing so on a social media site for football fanatics which makes your evangelizing seem more than a tad ironic.

 

[Deleted User 11453]

....

So evangelize by all means but be aware that you're doing so on a social media site for football fanatics which makes your evangelizing seem more than a tad ironic.

I'm unsure if using the analogy of 'football fanatics' when regarding religion is proving anything.

On this social media forum there will be a mix of those who were born in Sunderland/NE who were basically indoctrinated into supporting SAFC, i.e. not much choice in the matter while they were a child.
At the other extreme we have e.g. people from the USA who support the Team Sunderland Black Cats Candy Stripes Soccerball Club because they like the name/strip/Altidore.
There are people whose faith has wavered, even those who have switched clubs.
There are posters who support different teams to SAFC.

A wide spectrum indeed. I'd assume that the 'average' poster would be a Sunderland supporter who attends 1-38 league matches per season and doesn't necessarily have 15 SAFC tattoos and posters of Seb Larsson on the room of their marial bedroom. Akin to a person born into a Church of England or Catholic family who attends most family events at Church but realises that God/Ellis Short isn't going to save them any time soon yet still retains a hint of faith.

 

[JonMc]

I'm unsure if using the analogy of 'football fanatics' when regarding religion is proving anything.

On this social media forum t. be a mix of those who were born in Sunderland/NE who were basically indoctrinated into supporting SAFC, i.e. not much choice in the matter while they were a child.
At the other extreme we have e.g. people from the USA who support the Team Sunderland Black Cats Candy Stripes Soccerball Club because they like the name/strip/Altidore.
There are people whose faith has wavered, even those who have switched clubs.
There are posters who support different teams to SAFC.

A wide spectrum indeed. I'd assume that the 'average' poster would be a Sunderland supporter who attends 1-38 league matches per season and doesn't necessarily have 15 SAFC tattoos and posters of Seb Larsson on the room of their marial bedroom. Akin to a person born into a Church of England or Catholic family who attends most family events at Church but realises that God/Ellis Short isn't going to save them any time soon yet still retains a hint of faith.

And you use words like 'faith' in describing said fanatics. Stop being so defensive. Football fans are clearly nuts and those who spend the most money, time and emotional investment in it are described in such terms as 'magnificent'. Do you not realise how simple that sounds? When in any other forum such devotion would be looked at with the utmost suspicion. Let's face it...when it comes to intelligence, fans of SAFC...especially those tens of thousands who attend every other week are low on the totem pole. If we're going to call others then at least call ourselves what we are.

And we use that stupidity to pass it all on to the next generation.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

I'm unsure if using the analogy of 'football fanatics' when regarding religion is proving anything.

On this social media forum there will be a mix of those who were born in Sunderland/NE who were basically indoctrinated into supporting SAFC, i.e. not much choice in the matter while they were a child.
At the other extreme we have e.g. people from the USA who support the Team Sunderland Black Cats Candy Stripes Soccerball Club because they like the name/strip/Altidore.
There are people whose faith has wavered, even those who have switched clubs.
There are posters who support different teams to SAFC.

A wide spectrum indeed. I'd assume that the 'average' poster would be a Sunderland supporter who attends 1-38 league matches per season and doesn't necessarily have 15 SAFC tattoos and posters of Seb Larsson on the room of their marial bedroom. Akin to a person born into a Church of England or Catholic family who attends most family events at Church but realises that God/Ellis Short isn't going to save them any time soon yet still retains a hint of faith.

Which can all be summed up in one word........Mind.

Jesus said, 'I shall give you what no eye has seen and what no ear has heard and what no hand has touched and what has never occurred to the human mind.' (Gospel of Jude the Twin)

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. (Gospel of John)