Kevin Arnott's right boot
Striker
Quick, somebody dismantle Perry's keyboard
Our turnover of playing staff since our last promotion must be the highest.
- Thread starter Scary nuns
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You tried to make a case for the signing then at the end stated it was a panic buy man. Whatever the circumstances buying a player that clearly isn't good enough is counter productive.
No, I done what you can't seem to do and don't seem to understand - I took myself back to the situation at the time and I never ever justified the Healy signing, you are lying suggesting I did, I simply gave the circumstances around it.
No no no. You have continually said players move for money and nothing else. We know they're mostly going to move for more, what you also completely ignore though is that the financial package is always going to be there and some clubs will have to pay more to attract a player than others, because of location, because of the competitions they may or may not be in etc, because that player might not particularly fancy the move, you then have to make it more attractive. You are ignoring all that for the sake of your own argument.
To the form in the second half of the season, as Evans was.
But it was at a time when our first and second and probably third and four choices wouldn't come. We weren't lacking in funds, obviously as it didn't curtail our spending afterwards. Therefore on the basis he scored about 8 valuable goals, grafted his bollocks off for a season or so out of position and then we almost got our money back, how can you knock it? No one is saying he was quality, no one denies he's an absolute shitbox of an individual, but needs must at the time, he contributed and we moved him on.
It was allover the press man and we were saying it, regardless of whether it was close or likely to happen.
Darren Ward only got caps as there was no one else decent, wheras Norman had Nevill Southall and others to contend with. Ward was almost finished himself when he arrived here anyway, just as Norman was. Chamberlain was average, but it's more than Alnwick ever amounted to. And for man who keeps claiming you don't google things, what you've said about Ward exactly mirrors his wiki page....
Kubicki had a spell out at Villa as he hadn't done well, but was excellent prior to and after Reid took over. His form dropped when he was in the top flight (God knows why) and then later in the season was played left back where he was poor. Cunningham was absolutely finshed here on arrival and played about six games for Keane before he had to retire.
Your memory fails you again, Ord had been in the side earlier in the season under Buxton and had done well, but wasn't a regular. It was Butcher who had regularly played Ord at left back, when Ord recieved a lot of criticism. Crosby even played him central midfield and compared him to Glenn Hoddle, but that's another story....
And no I'm not stating how good Scott was by the price tag, as he was better than it. I was pointing out that in some areas the players Reid had on arrival had more spent on them than many of Keane's, 12 years or so previous. Melville wasn't poor at all, that just shows how you're building up Caldwell and Nos into "had won the Championship before" players as good and knocking players like Melville who were clearly better.
Smith had been excellent that season prior to Reid coming in, statistically as a winger he'd been scoring 1 goal in every 3 starts in his Sunderland career which is superb. There's no myth in that. As with most wingers of his type, he was inconsistent, but he was a class act at that time at that level, probably why Bruce was desperate to get him to Huddersfield, but initially lost out. I find it laughable you can build up players like Caldwell, Nos, Lawrence, Delap and at the same time knock players like Ferguson, Melville and Cunnington and say Ball was 'ok'. In the grand scheme of things they were all shite, we know that. The point is we had spent good money on buying them and they had been useful players at that level for us and others.
So Kyle and Brown at that time were better than Russell and Gray? Kyle had gone by the time Keane arrived btw, we did have Jon Stead, somewhere, but he was bombed out quickly and was absolutely dreadful by that point. We also had Murphy, who had actually started ok. I'd say there's not a lot of difference between the set of strikers each had given to them, the 2006/07 ones should have shaded it, but due to Elliott's injuries and the relegation hang over they weren't as good and were being outscored by Reid's strikers both prior to and post Reid coming in, even when Russ was on the wing.
Location is possibly the only thing I will budge on in regards to bringing in players up here. This whole status thing when it comes to clubs in and around the bottom dozen or so sides (including newly promoted) really isn't an issue and if you think it is then it's you who is naive Bonny lad.
Evans was excellent. Reid was a part of the side but by means integral.
I would have liked better than Chopra. We lost a million on him which shows he was hardly the success you're trying to make out.
All over the press?? I think a couple of battle crys from the players on back of the Echo would be nearer the mark. People on here were talking about finishing above mags last season after our maiden victory of the campaign it doesn't mean to say it was ever that likely does it?
I did check Wards caps as I'd have put money on him getting more than Norman but I'd have been wrong. He was no worse than chamberlain either.
Kubicki was a decent enough player in championship I accept that. I take it your 'god knows why' comment as to his loss of firm was you being sarcastic as it's pretty clear that the step up was too much for him at that stage.
Butcher was the first to try Ord at left back but Buxton also played him there. I was at a wedding with him last year and we spoke quite a bit about this era and he openly admits that Reid saved his career here.
I'm not building Caldwell or Nos up but I'd take them over Mary Everytime. You're saying Melville was clearly better??? Speechless!! They had won championship before though which indicates they were very capable players at that level.
I'm not sure if smiths statistics but if he was scoring one in three I'd be amazed if that was over anything more than 10 games. He had a good little spell of scoring goals first season at stadium when played upfront but even then Reid didn't fancy him and he drifted down leagues fairly quickly after that.
How am I building up Lawrence,Delap and whitehead? All I'm saying is that they have all played well over a 100 top flight games. That isn't bigging them up it's just a fact. Just as it's a fact that that Ferguson and cunnington never got near a top flight side in their careers. You are the one making out they were useful players for us. Are you kidding me? Two complete wastes of money and I'd say that would be a unanimous opinion amongst our fans.
Gray had seen better days at the time of Reid arriving and as I've said Russell was a winger who Reid had the foresight to move upfront. A relegation hangover? You really are just speculating now mind. Both Reid and McCarthy managed to get a tune out of freshly relegated players as have many other managers. We have no idea of the players psyche so that really is clutching at straws now.
A
Andy Reids Love Chil
Guest
So what have we learnt from this thread, gang?
Scary nuns
Midfield
Nothing to do with me boss. The big boys just came and took over the thread.So what have we learnt from this thread, gang?
Perryqhill
Striker
So Jones wasn't courted by anyone (allegedly to the tune of £15m to £20m at one of many times) or Richardson? There were several bids for the latter in one transfer window which would have given us a healthy profit. The point was never about who was courted by whom though, it was about how you will look at individual items and the circumstances when it comes to how thing arose under Bruce to excuse him, but with Keane it's just black or white. Hence I mentioned how I could see that it wasn't all due to Bruce, whereas you would pin it on a choice of bad character, which ultimately comes down to the man who picked them.
So that's what I mean, there's little in the way of facts or detail when it comes to Keane with you it's all blanks. Whereas with Bruce you give him the benefit of the doubt and you then have the cheek to call yourself balanced and look at me saying how you can see I can't be balanced on the subject! It's quite astonishing really, how you can make those claims based merely on the fact you say you can appreciate he was a class player and he done well here at first. Of course you can, only an idiot would dispute it and I can see similar with Bruce. That's not what clouds your judgement though, it's the way you can't look at individual item that followed under Keane's reign without looking at it completely negatively i.e. everything was shite and he done everything wrong, because it didn't go how you wanted, when that's not what happened.
Chopra did leave before it hit the fan and I don't disagree with that, it makes me wonder why you mentioned it though. Clark of course he did again, but he provoked every single bit of what might have happened or what followed with the T-shirt.
So what have we learnt from this thread, gang?
That MBH/Mr Jardine is balanced or maybe not....
Perryqhill
Striker
No, I simply showed the circumstances which led to the signing of a squad player. Quite why you're so bothered about it I've no idea, managers make similar signings often enough.
Of course it is an issue, every single item be it European competition, clubs recent history, manager, players at the club, location, money up front, bonuses, wages etc can be and are issues that lead to players either signing or not. When talking about established players even if said player is interested, you're going to have to pay a premium to get him to come to a newly promoted side. If he's good enough then it's likely he'll not even consider you, as his agent will see he'll get the same money elsewhere, unless you're talking Gyan money or Citeh or Chelsea dosh, but who can afford that?
I'm not making him out to be a success. I'm pointing out how he contributed to our side staying up for two seasons, that is fact. Of course we would have all liked better including Keane himself. Nugent went to Pompey, Forlan etc weren't interested, Mido turned us down and we got lucky and got Jones there. We signed Chopra when the promoted clubs (like Bruce at Brum) were paying £2.7m for Gary O'Connor - he got 2 goals for them that season in the league. Rob Earnshaw went to Derby for £3.5m and scored 1 in 22 league games. Derby also paid £2.3m for Kenny Miller, who scored 4 goals in 30 league games. Chopra played most of that season on the wing, played 33 league games and scored 6 goals, then played 3 league games and scored 2 goals the season after. So he outscored all of the forwards promoted clubs were signing at the time barring Kenwyne who we also signed (almost scoring as many as the three listed) then he was moved on for more than all those three were combined.
A better striker would have been fantastic, but short term job done and we moved him on.
Like I said all over the press and we were talking about it. We were 11th place at the time, on a good cup run and had been expected to challenge from the start anyway. It's not so far fetched when you think about it....
Not really true though was it? Kubicki had a reasonable start, he was dropped out of spite when about to equal a record, at a time our goal difference was top of the league on a par with Man Utd's about six or seven games in before the Derby game. Hall came in (a Reid signing) and was kept in despite doing nothing to justify his place over the entire season.
I can't actually recall Ord at left back that season, but I do recall him at centre back earlier in the season and he done very well.
You're making out some players were decent players on the basis they won the Championship, bizarre really. And Nos hadn't btw, nor had he played at centre half before Keane arrived. Like I said Caldwell was the only decent one at the time Keane arrived.
145 appearances, 28 goals which is actually one goal approx every 5 games. If you take league games only and starts it's 90 starts and 25 goals, which is one goal every 3.5 starts or so. In the season you mention it was only about four goals and he had barely been a regular since the season Reid took over.
I'm saying they were useful at the level we were at for us or others, which most of the players you talked of "winning the Championship" as somekind of baring on quality were also, you used Brown ffs, he was bit part for us in the season we went up and although he's had a reasonable career for one so limited he's barely done owt since. Lawrence wont have actually played 100 top flight games either. You say that then say Melville was poor who probably did play well over 100 top flight games and Ball was 'ok' who also will have played around that many.
Gray hadn't seen better days at all, what bullshit. He was the same as always, a bit inconsistent, possibly lacking a bit fitness, but again our top scorer. Russell was a centre forward, whom Buxton was playing on the wing for some reason, hardly foresight by Reid.
I'm speculating we had a relegation hang over????
Firstly the only relegated players Reid managed to get a tune out of were his own and he only managed that when he dropped half of them and brought in about five or six new players. McCarthy had about 60 players when he arrived, sold the ones on higher wages and had the likes of Arca left, with a wage bill bigger than half the Premiership.
Kevin Arnott's right boot
Striker
So what have we learnt from this thread, gang?
I've learned that Keane's signings were of an equivalent standard to Bruce's; that Nos and Caldwell were both better than Melville; that Lee Howey and Brett Angell were more competent Championship strikers than Stephen Elliott; that Shaun Cunnington was more valuable to us than Dean Whitehead; that Keane should have had no difficulty attracting players to SAFC despite our location and the fact that we had picked up 34 points in our previous two Premiership seasons combined; that Dariusz Kubicki was no better than Stephen Wright, and that, given the circumstances, £14million on Ferdinand and McCartney wasn't too much.
I'm pleased you used the term allegedly mind as nobody was ever going to pay 15-20m for Jones and if they were that's another black mark for Keane for not snapping hands off. Don't get me wrong though Jones done a decent job for us and was a good signing by Roy. When was Richardson ever worth more than the 5-6m we paid for him either? I'm not saying he wasn't linked to clubs but he was never going for more than we paid. Again though he wasn't a bad signing particularly once moved to left back. Were is the negativity there? Two good signings.So Jones wasn't courted by anyone (allegedly to the tune of £15m to £20m at one of many times) or Richardson? There were several bids for the latter in one transfer window which would have given us a healthy profit. The point was never about who was courted by whom though, it was about how you will look at individual items and the circumstances when it comes to how thing arose under Bruce to excuse him, but with Keane it's just black or white. Hence I mentioned how I could see that it wasn't all due to Bruce, whereas you would pin it on a choice of bad character, which ultimately comes down to the man who picked them.
So that's what I mean, there's little in the way of facts or detail when it comes to Keane with you it's all blanks. Whereas with Bruce you give him the benefit of the doubt and you then have the cheek to call yourself balanced and look at me saying how you can see I can't be balanced on the subject! It's quite astonishing really, how you can make those claims based merely on the fact you say you can appreciate he was a class player and he done well here at first. Of course you can, only an idiot would dispute it and I can see similar with Bruce. That's not what clouds your judgement though, it's the way you can't look at individual item that followed under Keane's reign without looking at it completely negatively i.e. everything was shite and he done everything wrong, because it didn't go how you wanted, when that's not what happened.
Chopra did leave before it hit the fan and I don't disagree with that, it makes me wonder why you mentioned it though. Clark of course he did again, but he provoked every single bit of what might have happened or what followed with the T-shirt.
That MBH/Mr Jardine is balanced or maybe not....
I mention those two instances to further illustrate my point that we will give a Geordie a chance but once it starts going wrong it'll come back to bite them as it has done on a number of occasions.
MBH thing is a bit boring really perry.
Didn't we have enough squad fillers in a Murphy, Stokes and Donovan (both signed my Keane)? A very poor signing and complete waste.No, I simply showed the circumstances which led to the signing of a squad player. Quite why you're so bothered about it I've no idea, managers make similar signings often enough.
Of course it is an issue, every single item be it European competition, clubs recent history, manager, players at the club, location, money up front, bonuses, wages etc can be and are issues that lead to players either signing or not. When talking about established players even if said player is interested, you're going to have to pay a premium to get him to come to a newly promoted side. If he's good enough then it's likely he'll not even consider you, as his agent will see he'll get the same money elsewhere, unless you're talking Gyan money or Citeh or Chelsea dosh, but who can afford that?
I'm not making him out to be a success. I'm pointing out how he contributed to our side staying up for two seasons, that is fact. Of course we would have all liked better including Keane himself. Nugent went to Pompey, Forlan etc weren't interested, Mido turned us down and we got lucky and got Jones there. We signed Chopra when the promoted clubs (like Bruce at Brum) were paying £2.7m for Gary O'Connor - he got 2 goals for them that season in the league. Rob Earnshaw went to Derby for £3.5m and scored 1 in 22 league games. Derby also paid £2.3m for Kenny Miller, who scored 4 goals in 30 league games. Chopra played most of that season on the wing, played 33 league games and scored 6 goals, then played 3 league games and scored 2 goals the season after. So he outscored all of the forwards promoted clubs were signing at the time barring Kenwyne who we also signed (almost scoring as many as the three listed) then he was moved on for more than all those three were combined.
A better striker would have been fantastic, but short term job done and we moved him on.
Like I said all over the press and we were talking about it. We were 11th place at the time, on a good cup run and had been expected to challenge from the start anyway. It's not so far fetched when you think about it....
Not really true though was it? Kubicki had a reasonable start, he was dropped out of spite when about to equal a record, at a time our goal difference was top of the league on a par with Man Utd's about six or seven games in before the Derby game. Hall came in (a Reid signing) and was kept in despite doing nothing to justify his place over the entire season.
I can't actually recall Ord at left back that season, but I do recall him at centre back earlier in the season and he done very well.
You're making out some players were decent players on the basis they won the Championship, bizarre really. And Nos hadn't btw, nor had he played at centre half before Keane arrived. Like I said Caldwell was the only decent one at the time Keane arrived.
145 appearances, 28 goals which is actually one goal approx every 5 games. If you take league games only and starts it's 90 starts and 25 goals, which is one goal every 3.5 starts or so. In the season you mention it was only about four goals and he had barely been a regular since the season Reid took over.
I'm saying they were useful at the level we were at for us or others, which most of the players you talked of "winning the Championship" as somekind of baring on quality were also, you used Brown ffs, he was bit part for us in the season we went up and although he's had a reasonable career for one so limited he's barely done owt since. Lawrence wont have actually played 100 top flight games either. You say that then say Melville was poor who probably did play well over 100 top flight games and Ball was 'ok' who also will have played around that many.
Gray hadn't seen better days at all, what bullshit. He was the same as always, a bit inconsistent, possibly lacking a bit fitness, but again our top scorer. Russell was a centre forward, whom Buxton was playing on the wing for some reason, hardly foresight by Reid.
I'm speculating we had a relegation hang over????
Firstly the only relegated players Reid managed to get a tune out of were his own and he only managed that when he dropped half of them and brought in about five or six new players. McCarthy had about 60 players when he arrived, sold the ones on higher wages and had the likes of Arca left, with a wage bill bigger than half the Premiership.
They're good signings to be had if look hard enough. I've conceded that location is a bit of an issue but Newcastle have had some big name players over the years so not insurmountable. And yes I know Newcastle is a lot more fashionable a city than sunderland but nothing stopping them living there and playing here.
Chopra cost more than that lot. The
same as oconnor and miller put together so id expect more from him. It again illustrates just how financially superior we were in comparison to those sides. Also how were we lucky to get Jones ? He was a good signing and il give credit were its due on that one.
And like I said a few players banging the drum in back of echo hardly constitutes a press campaign does it? Any like minded fan would have known it was never going to happen.
Kubicki was atrocious against Newcastle and was showing signs of fragility. He was certainly better than Hall mind but he was definitely on the decline. Also immensely unpopular in dressing room as well according to Ord.
Ord was a figure of ridicule for the fans up until Reid came in. He then went in to become as good a centre half as I've seen in my time supporting Sunderland. Abother yard of pace and he'd have been at a bigger club.
A fair chunk of what Keane started with had won that league 16 month before he arrived so it's not unreasonable to suggest they were good championship players as oppose to the perennial 2nd tier relegation battlers that Reid inherited.
You're now trying to manipulate Smiths figures to suit your argument. A player who played his whole career in 2nd tier and below. Let's not try and compare him to a Swedish international Bonny lad.
When were cunnington or ferguson ever useful for us? I obviously missed that. Without checking I dare say Lawrence will have around a hundred games under his belt. A season for us then about 3 for Stoke I'd say he has but I'll leave the revisionist to check that out.
I also doubt Mary has a hundred games either. A season for us and not sure how much he played for Fulham but don't think it was that much. Will leave it in your capable hands though.
Reid tried to get rid of Gray around halfway through our championship season. He eventually went to that footballing powerhouse Nancy at end of that season. Like I said he'd seen better days. Russell was a striker who'd never played as a striker in his first team career. He may have played his youth and reserve stuff there but that bares little relevance to what happens once hit the big time. Like it or not Reid gave him his chance up top.
You're speculating on the affect it had on the side. Unless you're now some kind of psychologist of course. Are you telling me that all relegated sides start off behind the 8 ball? Come off it man.
You are underestimating the relegation hangover though surely? Your manipulating of facts is to be commended mind. Sunderland had lost every asset we had in that summer after relegation and unlike Keane , McCarthy was given a pittance to work with. Who were the big wage earners by the way? Stewart, arca, mcateer perhaps but the rest were very much championship players or in the case of bjorklund and Babb too flight players who were past their best.
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the streaker
Guest
I have no fingerprints on my right thumb..So what have we learnt from this thread, gang?
Beery
Striker
I haven't read a single post but I suspect its "this is why there should never have been a PF Forum"So what have we learnt from this thread, gang?
T
the streaker
Guest
Cant b arsed to go and extract the actual shite but if you think kubicki was a disruptive influence in the dressing room you need sectioning. ..Didn't we have enough squad fillers in a Murphy, Stokes and Donovan (both signed my Keane)? A very poor signing and complete waste.
They're good signings to be had if look hard enough. I've conceded that location is a bit of an issue but Newcastle have had some big name players over the years so not insurmountable. And yes I know Newcastle is a lot more fashionable a city than sunderland but nothing stopping them living there and playing here.
Chopra cost more than that lot. The
same as oconnor and miller put together so id expect more from him. It again illustrates just how financially superior we were in comparison to those sides. Also how were we lucky to get Jones ? He was a good signing and il give credit were its due on that one.
And like I said a few players banging the drum in back of echo hardly constitutes a press campaign does it? Any like minded fan would have known it was never going to happen.
Kubicki was atrocious against Newcastle and was showing signs of fragility. He was certainly better than Hall mind but he was definitely on the decline. Also immensely unpopular in dressing room as well according to Ord.
Ord was a figure of ridicule for the fans up until Reid came in. He then went in to become as good a centre half as I've seen in my time supporting Sunderland. Abother yard of pace and he'd have been at a bigger club.
A fair chunk of what Keane started with had won that league 16 month before he arrived so it's not unreasonable to suggest they were good championship players as oppose to the perennial 2nd tier relegation battlers that Reid inherited.
You're now trying to manipulate Smiths figures to suit your argument. A player who played his whole career in 2nd tier and below. Let's not try and compare him to a Swedish international Bonny lad.
When were cunnington or ferguson ever useful for us? I obviously missed that. Without checking I dare say Lawrence will have around a hundred games under his belt. A season for us then about 3 for Stoke I'd say he has but I'll leave the revisionist to check that out.
I also doubt Mary has a hundred games either. A season for us and not sure how much he played for Fulham but don't think it was that much. Will leave it in your capable hands though.
Reid tried to get rid of Gray around halfway through our championship season. He eventually went to that footballing powerhouse Nancy at end of that season. Like I said he'd seen better days. Russell was a striker who'd never played as a striker in his first team career. He may have played his youth and reserve stuff there but that bares little relevance to what happens once hit the big time. Like it or not Reid gave him his chance up top.
You're speculating on the affect it had on the side. Unless you're now some kind of psychologist of course. Are you telling me that all relegated sides start off behind the 8 ball? Come off it man.
You are underestimating the relegation hangover though surely? Your manipulating of facts is to be commended mind. Sunderland had lost every asset we had in that summer after relegation and unlike Keane , McCarthy was given a pittance to work with. Who were the big wage earners by the way? Stewart, arca, mcateer perhaps but the rest were very much championship players or in the case of bjorklund and Babb too flight players who were past their best.
He's probably the most down to earth footballer I have ever met and hes not like that in the slightest. ..
Kevin Arnott's right boot
Striker
Like Streaks, I cant be arsed to go through the whole argument, but to clarify Lawrence's stats in the top flight, he made 19 starts, plus 10 sub appearances for us, and 32+13 for Stoke.
don't let Perry or Jardine anywhere near a keyboard, unless you need something to send the kids to sleep with.So what have we learnt from this thread, gang?
I'm going off both what Ord told me and also what Ord said on national Radio when he stated that the players used to call Kubicki 'the serial killer' as he wouldn't interact with any of the players and would just sit in the dressing room staring at people. Also perhaps the reason Reid dropped him just before he broke the appearance record too.
I get the feeling there wasn't much sincerity in that particular post !
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the streaker
Guest
I'm going off both what Ord told me and also what Ord said on national Radio when he stated that the players used to call Kubicki 'the serial killer' as he wouldn't interact with any of the players and would just sit in the dressing room staring at people. Also perhaps the reason Reid dropped him just before he broke the appearance record too.
I get the feeling there wasn't much sincerity in that particular post !
Having met the lad more than once his character is nothing like that............
And to then suggest that's the reason Reid dropped him is pure utter fantasy as well.....
Well I'm just going off what a lad who shared a dressing room with him for years said, not only to me but on national radio as well.
He also said perhaps a bit tongue in cheek when I think of it that that was why Reidy dropped him at that point.
Perry mentioned that kubickis form dropped right off and he couldn't understand it. I put it down to him perhaps being finished and the higher level at that stage of career was too much. I merely added the part about his lack of popularity (according to Ord) as food for thought.
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the streaker
Guest
I think its more likely that the likes of Dickie Ord couldn't relate to an international footballer who was the consummate professional who didn't drink or smoke and was as fit as a butchers dog at the time when football was still consumed by drininking cultures at clubs and especially with a manager like Reid.
If Kubickis form had dropped it certainly didn't warrant being left out with so much immediacy without any explanation whatsoever when on the verge of breaking a club record.......
According to Ord nobody could relate to him though. I don't read too much into it as it takes all sorts to make a dressing room, like I said it was just another point of view.
His dropping was very poor not just because of the record but of who his replacement was also.
Perryqhill
Striker
Wasn't Keane when the alleged £15m to £20m was offered though, transfer window after he just left. Doesn't matter what it was, there was interest which you denied and we sold him for more than he paid anyway.
Newcastle offered £8m for Richardson on transfer deadline day. The negativity was when you look at the job lot and say there was no interest at all.
The MBH might be boring, but we all know it's you.
Stokes and Murphy were around, but by then we were looking at moving them on. Donovan wasn't in the picture as he was shite. At the time of signing Healy we had about one fit and available striker. By the time the season started we'd signed Cisse, most were fit and Chopra was out of rehab. Like I said it was a bit of a panic, but at the time, whether he turned out to be shite or not, we were dreadfully short up front.
But some players are scouted for years, we were trying to build a quick fire Premiership team. Newcastle have had to greatly pay way over the odds for many of those players too, hardly a glowing reccommendation ticking up the club to the tune of £100m plus and having to sell 28000 season tickets just to pay your debts off every year is it? Newcastle have also had European competition and were a fashionable club and city during the 90's, off the back of spending money and signing big names when it was as simple as offering them £25k a week.
So he done better than all the strikers promoted clubs signed, despite being played out of position and the penny of the market we were shopping in still doesn't drop with you?
We got lucky with Jones because many players don't make the step up and also because we got him after Mido turned us down.
Again, why are you talking about players saying it, I never said it was, nor did I ever say it was the Echo. You're first saying it didn't happen, then making it sound small time to suit your argument when you're simply wrong.
It was people in the national press on Tv and fans. It wasn't likely we'd get to a cup final, but we did beating Premiership opposition on the way. Seeing as it was turn of the year and a good month of league results, two games in hand and 5 points or so behind the play off places naturally people are going to talk of a play off push. It would be stupid to suggest they wouldn't, nomatter how likely or unlikely it was.
Not true. He had a really bad spell under Butcher a season or two earlier and then played left back. I even recall him playing left back one game and doing quite well Wolves at home and he was getting endless abuse, whilst he looked ungainly and slow for the position, he was quite good on the ball and didn't make so bad a fist of it, whilst others who we paid more for got off scott free. By the time Reid came in he had not been playing regularly that season, but he seemed to have matured a touch and looked a better player in sporadic centre half appearances. Think it may have been Boro away earlier that season where he was outstanding, probably why Reid put him and Gray straight in, when it could only have been Buxton seeing something he didn't like in them for freezing them out.
Give over, we had the dregs left from the promotion side and then relegation that no one wanted at that point. The some who were seen to be reasonable like Lawrence and Elliott were either so far out of form and knackered because of constant injuries it was untrue. Barring Caldwell and Whitehead we had nothing capable of really performing to that level.
I'm not trying to manipulate anything, he scored one goal every 3.5 starts for us, mainly from the wing. That is fact. Even taking his overall career appearances into account he was scoring approx 1 goal every 5 games mainly from the wing and mostly when he played under Reid, the right wing. Talking about how his career turned out doesn't always show a true reflection of that particular time. He left SAFC on a Bosman when Reid offered him a new deal to stay, but he wanted to play. He played at Sheff United and was top scorer in the league, because he'd only signed a short term deal to prove himself he went to Bruce at Huddersfield when the money was on offer, had a decent start and then got injured for 18 months. On his return Huddersfield were skint, had sacked Bruce and were playing a Division lower. He still came back and top scored for them though. From there onwards he never stepped back up and was always injury prone and short of fitness, but that doesn't detract that he scored regular goals here in the first few seasons he was a regular, that Coventry bid £2m for him and Villa bid £1.5m at thos times too.
And I never compared him to a Swedish international, but what the fuck does that matter? Hysen had played one game for Sweden or so when he arrived, a man who like Smith barely tested himself at the top level. At the same level Martin Smith played at least equally as well for us as Hysen did.
When were cunnington or ferguson ever useful for us? I obviously missed that. Without checking I dare say Lawrence will have around a hundred games under his belt. A season for us then about 3 for Stoke I'd say he has but I'll leave the revisionist to check that out.
Cunnington was shit, but useful in scoring goals first season and WBA saw fit to offer us 250k for him. As back up at that level what do you expect?
Ferguson looked a useful player first season for us, but was very very slow and his form tailed off quickly. Both players were only back up, but the point was even back then we'd spent more on them than players we had at the club in central midfield when Keane arrived and thus greater depth in that area.
Mary a season up with us and several at Fulham,where he was a regular for about five seasons, easily breezed past 100 league games.
Of course he did, his contract was running out fast. He was our main regular pick striker and top scorer till March when he'd decided not to sign a new deal and Stewart came back. He went to Nancy on a Bosman as many went over there at the time (Makin, Allan Johnston) because at that point there was confusion about the Bosman deals to the same league - you still needed to pay the club compo. So many players went to France to cash in.
Russell played as a striker when he made his debut in 92 under Denis Smith, then he played as a striker under Crosby and Butcher. At first he was a striker under Buxton too, but then Buxton began to use him wide left and moved Smith wide right. That coincided with a good run of form towards the end of Buxton's first season and he stayed with it for a while that's all. Suggesting he never played upfront is downright bollocks I'm afraid.
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