Parliament debates drugs

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Dave Herbal said:
Haven't a succession of government appointed scientists advocated decriminalisation, only to resign when said government chooses to ignore their recommendations?

What's the point of asking experts if you think you know better?
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They sacked that professor Nutt because they didn't like his views on MDMA.
 


shogun1904 said:
They sacked that professor Nutt because they didn't like his views on MDMA.
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A really good scientific advisor gives good advice in private. Whether a democratically elected politician takes it is their business. A bad scientific advisors had a tantrum everytime he doesn't get his way and goes crying to the press. That's why Nutt was sacked.
 
El Matador said:
The moral of that story is........don't go to coffee shops which are up stairs. :D

You and @monkeytassle sound like a right pair of lightweights. :lol:
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I, and my other compadres, pretty much gave up in our late 20s when a couple of Red Leb joints would have us all nodding off and ruining the long-running arguments about what music what sh1te. I remember having a tab about 45 mins after in the Vondelpark and it took me fluckin' head off again. Too strong.
 
Lankester Merrin said:
A really good scientific advisor gives good advice in private. Whether a democratically elected politician takes it is their business. A bad scientific advisors had a tantrum everytime he doesn't get his way and goes crying to the press. That's why Nutt was sacked.
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I can understand his frustration though. Why hire experts in the field when your mind is already made up about something?
 
Pants said:
Lots of views regarding the practicalities of the legal status of drugs, but what about morality? By what moral right can you stop another adult putting whatever they want into their own bodies?
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The same moral right the state has for telling us we can't drive without wearing a seatbelt. The state has a duty to protect it's citizens even from themselves. Haphazardly applied mind but it is the state after all. No matter how much you measure it against other recreational poisons you're talking about legalizing more recreational poisons.

That is the states moral point of view.
 
shogun1904 said:
I can understand his frustration though. Why hire experts in the field when your mind is already made up about something?
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It's not about making up your mind. Advisors are there for all sorts of reasons, and they give all sorts of advice, some of which is contradictory.

We elect politicians to make decisions. Scientists often preach impartiality and objectivity but have massive tantrums if they don't get their own way.
 
Why can GW Pharma get a license to grow cannabis to supply the NHS with Sativex to give out to a patient at a cost of 8K per person per year out of the NHS budget when the same person could be granted a licence (due to their medical condition) to grow their own for less than a hundred pound for the same supply?

In these days of austerity its is complete bollocks and madness.
 
Instead of asking people to write the names of three employers to get their Jobseeker's Allowance, test them for drink and drugs. Every fortnight. How much they get depends on what they've taken.
Two problems solved.
 
Red N White Baron said:
Instead of asking people to write the names of three employers to get their Jobseeker's Allowance, test them for drink and drugs. Every fortnight. How much they get depends on what they've taken.
Two problems solved.
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In what way? Even on a binge you can clear your system in 36 hours of abstinence.
 
Lankester Merrin said:
A really good scientific advisor gives good advice in private. Whether a democratically elected politician takes it is their business. A bad scientific advisors had a tantrum everytime he doesn't get his way and goes crying to the press. That's why Nutt was sacked.
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A scientist cannot give good advice. If he does, its outside the realm of his expertise.
 
Lankester Merrin said:
Are you referring to the recent Public Health England report? It showed that liver disease is up 40% over a decade. This is driven by a mix of alcohol, obesity, and drug use. Not all of the increase is due to alcohol - in fact the actual Public Health England report didn't separate out alcoholic and non-alcoholic liver disease - that was how it was reported in the press. Regardless of what happens to drinking liver disease will continue to increase driven by obesity if nothing else.

Total drink related deaths aren't up 40% in the last 10 years, and I don't get where you found that statistic. Basically we passed peak booze in 2002. Since then units consumed have been declining year on year. Alcohol related deaths peaked in 2008, and have been declining slowly since then. Drink related A&E attendances peaked a couple of years ago, and are in a slow fall too. The liberalisation of licensing laws in the early 2000s co-incided with a long term decline in drinking. But you wouldn't read that in the media



Yes. Smoking is bad. But it is also falling sharply. In fact over the last couple of years smoking has fallen to it's lowest level since the NHS was established. This is really good news.

Not really sure that point you are making here



Yes. But is wasn't invented now. Life's not perfect. Although frankly the Negroni I am drinking is as close to perfection as it gets
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my current drink of choice ..............about 3 a day................. gorgeous:cool:
 
Red N White Baron said:
Instead of asking people to write the names of three employers to get their Jobseeker's Allowance, test them for drink and drugs. Every fortnight. How much they get depends on what they've taken.
Two problems solved.
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Not sure I agree

In the 1980s and 1990s lots of people were booted out of long stay mental hospitals in a programme called "care in the community". Most of them were abandoned in urban areas, where they quickly lost touch with services and self medicated with drink and drugs. Many of them became homeless, and over time gangs of homeless drunk and stoned mad people became a feature of run down urban areas of many British cities

Eventually one of this group walked into a london tube station and killed someone at random.

In the early 2000s a programme was run by the NHS called Assertive Outreach. It aimed to find as many of this group as possible. Some went into treatment, but many were too far gone with drink and drugs to be saved, and for them all the NHS could do was to calm them down, get them securely housed, and make sure that they got a small income in benefits. The programme cost millions.

It was followed up with a programme called DSPD (Dangerous Severe Personality Disorder) which aimed to identify individuals who had a RAPIER score (Rampton Psycopathy Index, Revised) severe enough to put them into forensic mental health services, but who were out of touch of mental health services, and often were unknown to the police. There was a very high crossover between the Assertive Outreach/old long stay cohort and the DSPD group.

I realise to hard working members of the public it is hard to understand why the state tolerates the existance of a group of mad smelly people who spend all day drinking white lightning and talking to themselves at the taxpayers expense, but frankly it is a hell of a lot better than having them roam the streets, and at least we know roughly were they are, and we can send a burly CPN round if they start getting freaky.

Care in the community was one of the biggest social policy failures of the post war era. Universal Credits will be another.

daventry cat said:
my current drink of choice ..............about 3 a day................. gorgeous:cool:
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Nice.

I make mine with Durham Gin, Aperol, and LaGuesta, although I am awaiting a shipment of high end barrel aged vermouth to try out. I often make up a batch in advance and let them blend in the bottle. I drink them out of tumbler of ice, with an orange rubbed over a flat plane grater over the top.
 
Lankester Merrin said:
Not sure I agree

In the 1980s and 1990s lots of people were booted out of long stay mental hospitals in a programme called "care in the community". Most of them were abandoned in urban areas, where they quickly lost touch with services and self medicated with drink and drugs. Many of them became homeless, and over time gangs of homeless drunk and stoned mad people became a feature of run down urban areas of many British cities

Eventually one of this group walked into a london tube station and killed someone at random.

In the early 2000s a programme was run by the NHS called Assertive Outreach. It aimed to find as many of this group as possible. Some went into treatment, but many were too far gone with drink and drugs to be saved, and for them all the NHS could do was to calm them down, get them securely housed, and make sure that they got a small income in benefits. The programme cost millions.

It was followed up with a programme called DSPD (Dangerous Severe Personality Disorder) which aimed to identify individuals who had a RAPIER score (Rampton Psycopathy Index, Revised) severe enough to put them into forensic mental health services, but who were out of touch of mental health services, and often were unknown to the police. There was a very high crossover between the Assertive Outreach/old long stay cohort and the DSPD group.

I realise to hard working members of the public it is hard to understand why the state tolerates the existance of a group of mad smelly people who spend all day drinking white lightning and talking to themselves at the taxpayers expense, but frankly it is a hell of a lot better than having them roam the streets, and at least we know roughly were they are, and we can send a burly CPN round if they start getting freaky.

Care in the community was one of the biggest social policy failures of the post war era. Universal Credits will be another.



Nice.

I make mine with Durham Gin, Aperol, and LaGuesta, although I am awaiting a shipment of high end barrel aged vermouth to try out. I often make up a batch in advance and let them blend in the bottle. I drink them out of tumbler of ice, with an orange rubbed over a flat plane grater over the top.
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we use campari and different gins/vermouths and add a twist or two or three drops literally of cointreau, didnt think i'd like them but fuck me theyre good
 
Red N White Baron said:
Instead of asking people to write the names of three employers to get their Jobseeker's Allowance, test them for drink and drugs. Every fortnight. How much they get depends on what they've taken.
Two problems solved.
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Are you saying someone who is unemployed should not be allowed to have a drink ? Or a spliff ?
Jawhol mein möchtegern unterdrücker.
.
 
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