Parliament debates drugs

[Lankester Merrin]

No, to make them illegal like drugs ...like for like.

Alcohol no. Alchohol is an ingrained part of our culture and prohibition has a long track record of failure. At the moment alcohol policy is working - units drunk is falling. I see no reason why we would change policy, although we could do with more inpatient detox beds.

Smoking is in even sharper decline, and clearly policy there is working too. Once smoking rates fell to very low levels I would consider measures that would effectively ban smoking completely but over a very long time - for example making it illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone born after 1st January 2010.

 

[Pants]

How about a labelling regime, where the strength of the drug is clearly stated on the package, and there is proof that the product is from a legitimate source. The strength could be related to different tax bands. There could also be a government programme of adverts and health advice showing us the best and safest way to take our drugs, and to warn people of the dangers of over-indulgence?

In breeding super-skunk, growers have increased the amount of THC in the plant whilst simultaneously lowering the amount of CBD, which is an antipsychotic. Obviously, anyone with any sense would prefer to smoke the dope with the CBD, but there's no way of knowing what you're buying really. Unless we do what you suggest. But that's far too sensible and so won't happen in this country any time soon. Instead, people will end up buying the CBD stripped weed and people will say 'look, dope causes mental health problems, we can't legalise that' without any understanding of what they're talking about.

 

[raindog]

Alcohol no. Alchohol is an ingrained part of our culture and prohibition has a long track record of failure. At the moment alcohol policy is working - units drunk is falling. I see no reason why we would change policy, although we could do with more inpatient detox beds.

Smoking is in even sharper decline, and clearly policy there is working too. Once smoking rates fell to very low levels I would consider measures that would effectively ban smoking completely but over a very long time - for example making it illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone born after 1st January 2010.

Alcoholic liver disease and cancer is massively on the increase. Drink related deaths is up 40% in the last 10 years. How is that working?

Alcoholic liver disease and cancer is massively on the increase. Drink related deaths is up 40% in the last 10 years. How is that working?

Smoking statistics
Smoking is becoming less widespread, but it remains a leading cause of death and disease in the UK.

NHS costs are estimated at £2.7 billion each year, with costs to the wider UK economy of around £2.5bn in sick leave and lost productivity.

Recent statistics suggest:

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England

• Approximately 21% of adults smoke, including a slightly higher percentage of men than women
• Over 81,400 deaths each year in those aged 35 years and over are caused by smoking – 18% of deaths in the age group
• An estimated 461,700 hospital admissions for people aged 35 years and older were estimated to be attributable to smoking.

Northern Ireland

• Around 24% of people smoke
• Estimates suggest more than 2,300 people a year die from tobacco-related illness in Northern Ireland
• Nearly 16,700 people are believed to be admitted to hospital for smoking-related illnesses each year.

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Scotland

• Around 24% of people smoke in Scotland
• Around 13,500 deaths – some 24% of all deaths in Scotland - are caused by smoking each year
• Smoking-associated diseases costs the Scottish healthcare system an estimated £271m each year, according to calculations by the charity Action on Smoking on Health in Scotland.

Wales

• Around 23% of people in Wales smoke
• Approximately 5,600 premature deaths and nearly 27,700 hospital admissions a year are caused by smoking
• Estimated smoking costs for NHS Wales are more than £380m a year, accounting for 7% of healthcare expenditure.

 

[Deleted member 22590]

Way to go missing the point completely. With your high levels of observation and insight have you ever considered a job with the Met Police?

How many assaults, thefts and murders have there been over the last forty years of our war on drugs are directly attributable to the drugs trade?

A succession of governments have ignored the fact that there are other options that might reduce the associated crimes that go with the drugs trade. Just so they can say "we are tougher on crime than the opposition". It hasn't worked for the last forty years but hey fuck it lets try for another forty years of the same failed policies it might work eventually.

Errr loads ! Every day there's doens of people getting a right kicking after being taxed ( robbed) of their drugs and money, I would estimate 95% of thefts are to fund drug habits and if a murders not a domestic, it's likely to be drug related.
That said, I don't see how criminalising users is helping anyone- get it legal and regulated, taxed and goverened properly and watch crime collapse, funding disappear from people traffickers, terrorists and gangs.

 

[greedminds]

Alcohol no. Alchohol is an ingrained part of our culture and prohibition has a long track record of failure. At the moment alcohol policy is working - units drunk is falling. I see no reason why we would change policy, although we could do with more inpatient detox beds.

Smoking is in even sharper decline, and clearly policy there is working too. Once smoking rates fell to very low levels I would consider measures that would effectively ban smoking completely but over a very long time - for example making it illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone born after 1st January 2010.

if alcohol invented now it wouldn't get an FDA license

 

[legend7]

Alcoholic liver disease and cancer is massively on the increase. Drink related deaths is up 40% in the last 10 years. How is that working?




Smoking statistics
Smoking is becoming less widespread, but it remains a leading cause of death and disease in the UK.

NHS costs are estimated at £2.7 billion each year, with costs to the wider UK economy of around £2.5bn in sick leave and lost productivity.

Recent statistics suggest:

Logon or register to see this image

England

• Approximately 21% of adults smoke, including a slightly higher percentage of men than women
• Over 81,400 deaths each year in those aged 35 years and over are caused by smoking – 18% of deaths in the age group
• An estimated 461,700 hospital admissions for people aged 35 years and older were estimated to be attributable to smoking.

Northern Ireland

• Around 24% of people smoke
• Estimates suggest more than 2,300 people a year die from tobacco-related illness in Northern Ireland
• Nearly 16,700 people are believed to be admitted to hospital for smoking-related illnesses each year.

Logon or register to see this image

Scotland

• Around 24% of people smoke in Scotland
• Around 13,500 deaths – some 24% of all deaths in Scotland - are caused by smoking each year
• Smoking-associated diseases costs the Scottish healthcare system an estimated £271m each year, according to calculations by the charity Action on Smoking on Health in Scotland.

Wales

• Around 23% of people in Wales smoke
• Approximately 5,600 premature deaths and nearly 27,700 hospital admissions a year are caused by smoking
• Estimated smoking costs for NHS Wales are more than £380m a year, accounting for 7% of healthcare expenditure.

Exactly and yet we still spend billions trying unsuccessfully to stop drugs reaching the streets when it could be far better spent keeping the public safe, instantly putting the drug dealers out of business by legalising and controlling. When you look at the figures below compared to the ones above its staggering how we are happy with alcohol and smoking being legal but drugs are seen as such an evil ( I don't want alchohol or smoking banned by the way, we all have to let off steam!)

"The total number of deaths related to drug misuse in England and Wales was 1,496 in
2012, a decrease of 109 from 2011 when there were 1,605 such deaths. This
continues the downward trend seen since 2008 when deaths peaked at 1,939.
• The most common underlying cause of death was from accidental poisoning,
accounting for 73% (1,087 out of 1,496) of deaths.
• Deaths involving new psychoactive substances (sometimes referred to as ‘legal
highs’) such as mephedrone have increased in the last year from 29 deaths in 2011 to
52 deaths in 2012."

 

[raindog]

Errr loads ! Every day there's doens of people getting a right kicking after being taxed ( robbed) of their drugs and money, I would estimate 95% of thefts are to fund drug habits and if a murders not a domestic, it's likely to be drug related.
That said, I don't see how criminalising users is helping anyone- get it legal and regulated, taxed and goverened properly and watch crime collapse, funding disappear from people traffickers, terrorists and gangs.

Drug related crime equates to 35% of all crime in the uk. that figure includes possession and cultivation

 

[Red N White Baron]

Harsh sentences aren't stopping them doing if when they're released. So make sentences even longer. Stops them dealing, and keeps the horrible bastard off the streets.

 

[Dave Herbal]

Haven't a succession of government appointed scientists advocated decriminalisation, only to resign when said government chooses to ignore their recommendations?

What's the point of asking experts if you think you know better?

 

[greedminds]

Harsh sentences aren't stopping them doing if when they're released. So make sentences even longer. Stops them dealing, and keeps the horrible bastard off the streets.

 

[Lankester Merrin]

Alcoholic liver disease and cancer is massively on the increase. Drink related deaths is up 40% in the last 10 years. How is that working?

Are you referring to the recent Public Health England report? It showed that liver disease is up 40% over a decade. This is driven by a mix of alcohol, obesity, and drug use. Not all of the increase is due to alcohol - in fact the actual Public Health England report didn't separate out alcoholic and non-alcoholic liver disease - that was how it was reported in the press. Regardless of what happens to drinking liver disease will continue to increase driven by obesity if nothing else.

Total drink related deaths aren't up 40% in the last 10 years, and I don't get where you found that statistic. Basically we passed peak booze in 2002. Since then units consumed have been declining year on year. Alcohol related deaths peaked in 2008, and have been declining slowly since then. Drink related A&E attendances peaked a couple of years ago, and are in a slow fall too. The liberalisation of licensing laws in the early 2000s co-incided with a long term decline in drinking. But you wouldn't read that in the media

Smoking statistics

Yes. Smoking is bad. But it is also falling sharply. In fact over the last couple of years smoking has fallen to it's lowest level since the NHS was established. This is really good news.

Not really sure that point you are making here

if alcohol invented now it wouldn't get an FDA license

Yes. But is wasn't invented now. Life's not perfect. Although frankly the Negroni I am drinking is as close to perfection as it gets

 

[Deleted member 22590]

Drug related crime equates to 35% of all crime in the uk. that figure includes possession and cultivation

Sorry like but virtually every shoplifting is to buy drugs, every street robbery and burglary. If the perps aren't caught they can't be classed as drug related but they are. Around 95% of acquisitive crime is drug related in reality, figures can be manipulated to say whatever is convenient and 35% is laughably low.

 

[palm 1]

Errr loads ! Every day there's doens of people getting a right kicking after being taxed ( robbed) of their drugs and money, I would estimate 95% of thefts are to fund drug habits and if a murders not a domestic, it's likely to be drug related.
That said, I don't see how criminalising users is helping anyone- get it legal and regulated, taxed and goverened properly and watch crime collapse, funding disappear from people traffickers, terrorists and gangs.

I'm surprised you want it legalised. Shite will be shite and if they are not dealing drugs they will move back to robberies , burglary etc.
They would still deal as well , only the profits will be less.
I haven't a clue what the best option is. I would certainly allow heroin addicts to be given it by a doctor as I believe that drug to be a special case, but for the rest of it I believe the situation should remain the same.

 

[zwartekat]

Harsh sentences aren't stopping them doing if when they're released. So make sentences even longer. Stops them dealing, and keeps the horrible bastard off the streets.

Plenty of horrible bastards waiting in the wings.

Depends what drugs we're talking about though. Do the coffee shops of Amsterdam keep people away from the harder end of things? As always, it's a mixture but I doubt it makes things worse.

 

[monkeytassle]

Plenty of horrible bastards waiting in the wings.

Depends what drugs we're talking about though. Do the coffee shops of Amsterdam keep people away from the harder end of things? As always, it's a mixture but I doubt it makes things worse.

Kept me very close to the hard wood floor after I fell down a set of stairs thanks to bastard white widow.

 

[zwartekat]

Kept me very close to the hard wood floor after I fell down a set of stairs thanks to bastard white widow.

After a heavy 40th birthday celebration with 3 others (we all came along at once like drugged buses in the first place) involving 2 sickies in the Rijksmuseum, 15 pints of coke and 3 pints of livening Heineken the lad in the shop recommended a nice mellow skunk. The results were interesting but involved an Irish tramp, nudity and some extreme paranoia. A marriage died.

It was a right laugh.

 

[Dibble]

Sorry like but virtually every shoplifting is to buy drugs, every street robbery and burglary. If the perps aren't caught they can't be classed as drug related but they are. Around 95% of acquisitive crime is drug related in reality, figures can be manipulated to say whatever is convenient and 35% is laughably low.

If half an hours hit of alcohol cost 50 benk you can be assured those figures would change.

 

[LeicesterMackem]

Drugs policy in the UK is broadly right. Drug use is falling in all catagories, deaths from drugs are falling too.

Most debate about drugs policy is based on a false dichotomy - you are either tough on drugs (harsher sentences) or soft on drugs (treatment not prison). In fact a sensible drugs policy has both - treatment services for those willing to change behaviour, prison for those who wont.

Behind the scenes however there has been a huge change over the last 10 years. Education in schools is massively better, such that attitudes towards drugs from younger people are much less pro-drugs than my generation was. Health care services are loads better - the NHS has more beds for detox and more consultants than ever before. The introduction of drug treatment orders and arrest referral schemes has been mostly succesful.

The right wing lobbyists who see more prison as a solution for everything are still making as much noise as before but frankly most people realise that expanding the treatment and recovery end of services rather than prison places has caused the fall in drug use.

The biggest priorities in the debate on drugs policy should be protecting current treatment services from cuts, extending anti-drugs education programmes, and slowly but steadily shifting resources from prison to treatment. Prison, should however, always be an option, particularly for dealers

Legalisation is a blind alley imho

How can drugs policy be broadly right when its effect is to simply hand the control and supply of drugs to criminal gangs? And how do you know drugs policy is responsible for the fall in drug use, as opposed to, say, changes in preference? Drugs are subject to trends. Also, what is the cost to the tax payer for this reduction? Is the expenditure justified for what would appear to be a relatively small reduction in drug use? How does it compare to the reduction in drug use in Portugal over the same period, for example?

 

[Deleted member 29721]

Errr loads ! Every day there's doens of people getting a right kicking after being taxed ( robbed) of their drugs and money, I would estimate 95% of thefts are to fund drug habits and if a murders not a domestic, it's likely to be drug related.
That said, I don't see how criminalising users is helping anyone- get it legal and regulated, taxed and goverened properly and watch crime collapse, funding disappear from people traffickers, terrorists and gangs.

Errr Aye! That was my point, maybe poorly written and obviously open to misinterpretation by coppers though

We can remove much of the gang violence, assaults and murders by taking drugs out of the hands of gangs and organised crime. Obviously once you start taxing drugs there will still be problems with smuggling, people will try and avoid drugs taxes in the same way as tobacco taxation is avoided.

 

[Reflektor]

Drug policy in UK is not a huge issue. Agree with what was said in the debate today from labour, lets review the evidence. The treatment system we have in place is the best in Europe, for now.