Britain first, UKIP, Tories

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Hulkster said:
What do you mean 'if the governemt allowed safe passage'.

What do the goverment do to prevent safe passage?

How can the UK government ensure that boats used to travel between the shores of Africa and the middle east travelling to Europe are seaworthy; and what is it you think they are doing to disallow this?

This tragic case which quite rightly has us all upset involved a Syrian family travelling by boat from Turkey to Greece, hoping to ultimately end up in Canada. How could the UK government have made that safe?

Even if we said no need to choose to Canada just come here we'll look after you, how do we make the journey safe? Is it feasible to provide free travel here to everyone in Syria who might want to take up such an offer? How do we get them safely out of Syria?

Would you support military action to capture several Syrian ports, defend those ports and use them to embark people onto free ferries to take them to their preferred destination? If not, how else do you propose we ensure sage passage?
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Bang on, in the race to be seen to be doing something people just haven't thought things through.
 


Hulkster said:
Even if we said no need to choose Canada just come here we'll look after you, how do we make the journey safe? Is it feasible to provide free travel here to everyone in Syria who might want to take up such an offer? How do we get them safely out of Syria?

Would you support military action to capture several Syrian ports, defend those ports and use them to embark people onto free ferries to take them to their preferred destination? If not, how else do you propose we ensure safe passage?
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What? You mean take on the Russians? :lol:
 
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AlpineExile said:
What? You mean take on the Russians? :lol:
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Precisely.

It's easy to talk about taking more responsibility, but what do people think we could practically do?

How can we provide safe passage without securing safe departure points in Syria (amongst other places)?

If we could somehow set up such departure points, would we then not be responsibility for the safety of people travelling to them?
 
lurker said:
You don't look so clever when you're shown the cold hard effects of not allowing desperate refugees of a war safe passage.

Many of them are fleeing ISIS, an entity we were responsible for creating.
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Please read my reply again.

Did I deny it was tragic?
Did I deny that its clearly a humanitarian crisis?

No, I just don't believe splattering a picture of a dead child everywhere is tasteful. Regardless of the validity of the point being made.
 
Cockney Mackem said:
With all due respect (and I can see this has upset you) I don't think the OP is arguing that UKIP is advocating the death of children. I believe he is arguing that UKIP has been guilty of talking about immigration in negative terms, characterising migrants and refugees as a threat and the cause of decline, decay and bad things happening and at times exaggerating their impact on British life. As such this has made people think only about keeping the current groups of migrants and refugees out, and thinking of them in terms of what havoc they will wreak if we let them in, and not about people needing our help. So really he's accusing UKIP of only thinking of migrants and refugees as a threat and a reason why we should close our borders and of forgetting that these are human beings, some of whom are in great distress, and of undermining the humanitarian side of the issue.

I'm not necessarily arguing against the view that the use of the photo is over the top. But I do think that you are sort of defending UKIP against accusations that haven't been made, and that if you are going to defend UKIP it should be on the public statements UKIP has made about migrants and refugees. By all means disregard what fringe members have said which UKIP high command has disavowed. But you'd still have to focus on what say Farage and his official representatives have said in debates and approved for billboard ads etc. What their policies are is only part of the picture at best.
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I appreciate what you are saying and make some fair points. However and its a big however the OP posted a pic of a dead child asking UKIP (amongst others) to justify this. Not Labour or Socialist worker or any other left leaning organisation. My point is and its justifiable he has aimed this tragedy squarely at people who vote for UKIP or Tory and that quite frankly is moronic.
 
lurker said:
You need to watch a documentary on what Isis are up to in Syria

Then you'll see why the parents were so desperate to get their child into a boat
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Im well aware whats going on mate, however I'll stand by what I said it would take 5mins to sort out a childs float
 
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The countries being supportive in killing Gaddafi and the ones trying to remove Assad from Syria should be the countries that should take care of this refugees. Libya and Syria would be much better and more stable countries with those as leaders, dictators or not rather than now when both of these countries are at in a civil war.
 
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Mainze said:
What do you suggest he government do then?
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more than we presently doing.
rather than have a blanket restriction on all; we could take a limited number of refugees from specifically from Syria...
Germany has proposed taking 700k, we cant do anywhere near that number we could take between 10k-30k people in family groups).. iirc we did something similar when uganda went tits up in the 1970s

its not an insurmountable number and it countries such as sweden, norway holland, fance, belguim, poland, baltic states etc do the same week could save a significant amount of lifes and prevent unnecessary people trafficking

next tactic is the up our presence in the med, we have a navy we could send a few more boats out there to intercept the traffikers boats.

doing nothing isnt an option.
 
GBSAFC said:
more than we presently doing.
rather than have a blanket restriction on all; we could take a limited number of refugees from specifically from Syria...
Germany has proposed taking 700k, we cant do anywhere near that number we could take between 10k-30k people in family groups).. its not an insurmountable number and it countries such as sweden, norway holland, fance, belguim, poland, baltic states etc do the same week could save a significant amount of lifes and prevent unnecessary people trafficking

next tactic is the up our presence in the med, we have a navy we could send a few more boats out there to intercept the traffikers boats.

doing nothing isnt an option.
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These limits your suggesting, what happens when they are reached? Will all trafficking have stopped by then? Will the root cause of the issues be solved and these people repatriated?
 
Mainze said:
These limits your suggesting, what happens when they are reached? Will all trafficking have stopped by then? Will the root cause of the issues be solved and these people repatriated?
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Then there is this. http://talkcarswell.com/home/passport-to-britain--once-issued-with-one-of/2861

And as the Hungarian PM points out:-
"Viktor Orban, who was holding talks with Mr Tusk, told reporters that the flow of migrants was a “German problem”.

“The problem is not a European problem, the problem is a German problem. Nobody would like to stay in Hungary, neither in Slovakia nor Poland nor Estonia. All of them would like to go to Germany,” he said.

You can change Germany to any of the more well to do EU countries.
 
Mainze said:
These limits your suggesting, what happens when they are reached? Will all trafficking have stopped by then? Will the root cause of the issues be solved and these people repatriated?
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the idea is to help alleviate the current crisis...
my figure could be low-end... the country might be able to support more... given the pressure thats mounting i think government(s) will start taking in Syrians quite soon.
in terms of repatriation; Syria is a bombed out mess, and unless Russia intervene on the assad side will remain so for years... think Lebanon in the 80's an an example, hence this is potentially a long term solution akin to the Ugandan scenario i mentioned earlier.

thats one option

do you have a better one?

Brexit said:
Then there is this. http://talkcarswell.com/home/passport-to-britain--once-issued-with-one-of/2861

And as the Hungarian PM points out:-
"Viktor Orban, who was holding talks with Mr Tusk, told reporters that the flow of migrants was a “German problem”.

“The problem is not a European problem, the problem is a German problem. Nobody would like to stay in Hungary, neither in Slovakia nor Poland nor Estonia. All of them would like to go to Germany,” he said.

You can change Germany to any of the more well to do EU countries.
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germany opened the ball on the exodus by calling a 700k cap... after which its become a free for all stampede
 
GBSAFC said:
the idea is to help alleviate the current crisis...
my figure could be low-end... the country might be able to support more... given the pressure thats mounting i think government(s) will start taking in Syrians quite soon.
in terms of repatriation; Syria is a bombed out mess, and unless Russia intervene on the assad side will remain so for years... think Lebanon in the 80's an an example, hence this is potentially a long term solution akin to the Ugandan scenario i mentioned earlier.

that one option

do you have a better one?
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I think we should continue blaming people who have no power, responsibility or anything to do with this crisis, right on man.
 
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