Rotherham Child Abuse update

Status
Not open for further replies.
ajthemackem said:
I'll go with the rest here - on the basis that you and your EDL/BNP chums were right all along and this is indeed an issue with Islam, what do we do about it?
Click to expand...
Taking action when it should be taken rather than turning a blind eye & being a coward would be a good start don't you think ??

not spavin said:
The problem is that you're watching unverified claims made by someone with a long-standing anti-Muslim agenda, and believe every single word.

If I posted a video featuring a Muslim which explains how terrific all Muslims are, would you take it at face value?

You either are looking for thing that confirm your prejudice, or you're not very good at applying critical thinking to sources of information. Either way, it's absolutely pointless debating anything at all with you.

Also - what should we do about it?
Click to expand...
??:rolleyes::oops:??

tiptoad said:
Paedo rap for EDL leader
ENGLISH Defence League leader Stephen Lennon has been blasted for backing a paedophile who helped to set up the far-right organisation.
Click to expand...
http://labour25.com/
 
Last edited:


WHD said:
It's a very difficult question. Most politicians probably know that Islam is a toxic ideology but are so shit scared of losing the Muslim vote they wouldn't dare say it. Also, if they do say anything remotely criticising it, Muslims will be out on the streets protesting and people would get hurt as a result.

Education is probably the only way, and I don't mean educating people to 'understand' other cultures, but educating people that these fairy tales aren't real. It's probably too late for any Muslim over about 10 so we would have to focus on the next generation. Abolition of ALL faith schools would be a start and a removal of all religious practices from school, including RE lessons. Teach about religions in history, but reiterate their beliefs are without foundation. Maybe a law like in French schools is required. Also a repeal of the law covering religious discrimination and removing the right of religious organisations to be charities. I accept none of this would be easy and would be met with opposition from all religions.


Oh, and not pussyfooting around like in Rotherham, being shit scared to mention the common denominator in these crimes and petrified of creating racial tension.
Click to expand...

At last some sensible suggestions.

I think it's far more important to protect freedom of expression and our secular society than is to become concerned about offending religious zealots. We should shout from the highest platform in our land that our way of life is to be protected first and foremost. If this upsets the fundamentalists they should either go live in a state that suits their religious beliefs or voice their concerns peacfully and democratically. The moment they get frenzied and start waving banners about calling our police/troops murders etc. Shoot the fuckers.

If we had a healthy western society where we weren't scared to offend others, non of the Rotherham affair would have happened. I don't like a lot of religious beliefs/cults but I especially detest the poison that is fundemental Islam and Judaism. They are without a doubt the ones that are insular bigots, not me for pointing it out.
 
HerdnMulhall said:
That echelons of powerful and indigenous high fliers appear to have availed themselves of vulnerable children in places like Kincora etc seems as much of a dark moral equivalent as any minority of Rochdale/ Oxford network. And the latter seemed contained by geographical location and sufficiently powerful to always escape scrutiny, and there needs to be an unfettered judicial enquiry into who was involved and what level of collusion and at what level supported their obvious sense of impunity..
Click to expand...

I don't know much about Pakistan. The Asian members of my family come from Delhi. They have their own problems with "Temple Girls" sold into child prostitution, and with gang rate apparently in reaction to the changing role of women.

I do think that what happened in Rotherham is shocking, and I can't understand what has happened to the Government enquiry? First there wasn't going to be one, then there was but with a limited terms of reference under Justice Butler Schloss, then she stood down, now we have an inquiry with no terms of reference, no chair and no start date. The decision to appoint B-S was, with hindsight, incredible given her links with some of the individuals concerned.

You start to doubt all kinds of things. There was a chap who lived next door to us, who was a Labour Councillor. He was convicted of "an offence", was expelled from the Labour party and lost his job. He immediately joined the Conservative Party, sat as a Conservative Councillor, and got a new job - working for the police as a civilian officer. At the time no-one would talk about what "the offence" was - it was only much later than I discovered it was "young men". How young I don't know. People were more concerned about the embarrassment or scandal than they were about having a sex offender living next door to them - let alone someone who was into "young men" (I was a strapping 14 yr old when it happened, but he never approached me so either I was too young or too old!). These days he would be run out of town. The shocking thing is that he went to work for the police - you could have been ringing up to report a sexual assualt and the chap taking down your details might have a conviction for a similar offence.
 
janiep said:
This is an excellent interview with one of the few people taking the taxpayer's pound who's done his job properly in this whole sorry affair:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...no-religious-basis-for-the-abuse-in-rotherham

I mentioned him up thread. He has some very interesting views, and we should listen to him.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. I think Nazir Afzal might be slightly biased when it comes to exonerating islam of any blame in this whole sorry affair. I can’t exactly put my finger on why though. Well, actually I can.
 
janiep said:
This is an excellent interview with one of the few people taking the taxpayer's pound who's done his job properly in this whole sorry affair:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...no-religious-basis-for-the-abuse-in-rotherham

I mentioned him up thread. He has some very interesting views, and we should listen to him.
Click to expand...

Sorry for my earlier reply. Failed attempt at multi-tasking.

It is a very good article, and it illustrates well what it feels like to actually making real decisions in real time with all of the constraints that brings, and the way in which pressure from politicians and the media interferes with proper independent decisions.
 
Lankester Merrin said:
Sorry for my earlier reply. Failed attempt at multi-tasking.

It is a very good article, and it illustrates well what it feels like to actually making real decisions in real time with all of the constraints that brings, and the way in which pressure from politicians and the media interferes with proper independent decisions.
Click to expand...
What's most interesting is that he says "this is a crime by men against women". It's gender not race which is at the heart of the real hate crime here. Well he says lots of interesting things, that's one.
 
He also states that Islam is against alcohol, which was a factor in the crimes, but the thing is, plenty of them sell it in their shops.

janiep said:
What's most interesting is that he says "this is a crime by men against women". It's gender not race which is at the heart of the real hate crime here. Well he says lots of interesting things, that's one.
Click to expand...
 
WHD said:
He also states that Islam is against alcohol, which was a factor in the crimes, but the thing is, plenty of them sell it in their shops.
Click to expand...
It's not against religious law to make money just as a Catholic can still sell a packet of condoms.

The difference here seems to be that one side of the debate is buffered by a man pretty much at the head of his professional tree, who 'has oversight of all child sex abuse cases in England and Wales' and the other side invoke an ex-comedian.

The man was also critical of the muslim community as a whole...but of course the patented response to that will be 'Yeah but he doesn't really mean it'.

You can't win. My first and last words on the topic.
 
I don't think it's against religious law to ply young girls with alcohol, as long as you don't drink it yourself.

My point is, a lot of people seem convinced that Islam has nothing whatsoever to do with crimes with this MO, when it is common denominator of the perpetrators across many different towns. I'm not saying Islam is to blame, but I certainly think it has features that could be used as an excuse for this behaviour. To totally dismiss this is extremely naive imo, and that includes this person in the article who seems to dismiss it on the grounds Islam is against alcohol.

JonMc said:
It's not against religious law to make money just as a Catholic can still sell a packet of condoms.

The difference here seems to be that one side of the debate is buffered by a man pretty much at the head of his professional tree, who 'has oversight of all child sex abuse cases in England and Wales' and the other side invoke an ex-comedian.

The man was also critical of the muslim community as a whole...but of course the patented response to that will be 'Yeah but he doesn't really mean it'.

You can't win. My first and last words on the topic.
Click to expand...
 
janiep said:
This is an excellent interview with one of the few people taking the taxpayer's pound who's done his job properly in this whole sorry affair:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...no-religious-basis-for-the-abuse-in-rotherham

I mentioned him up thread. He has some very interesting views, and we should listen to him.
Click to expand...

I'm amazed you think that. He is just another one that seems to sweep it under the carpet.

He says it is a media bias not the fact that Pakistanis are raping more kids. I thought the stats said otherwise.

This bit is laughable -Where there is involvement of Asian men or men of Pakistani origin, he points to a practical, rather than cultural explanation – the fact that in the areas where grooming scandals have been uncovered, those controlling the night-time economy, people working through the night in takeaways and driving minicabs, are predominantly Asian men. He argues that evidence suggests that victims were not targeted because they were white but because they were vulnerable and their vulnerability caused them to seek out “warmth, love, transport, mind-numbing substances, drugs, alcohol and food”.

Where you have Pakistani men, Asian men, disproportionately employed in the night-time economy, they are going to be more involved in this kind of activity than perhaps white men are. We keep hearing people talk about a problem in the north and the Midlands, and that’s where you have lots of minicab drivers, lots of people employed in takeaways, from that kind of background. If you have a preponderance of Asians working in those fields, some of that number, a very small number of those people, will take advantage of the girls who have moved into their sphere of influence. It’s tragic.” Are there gangs of white taxi driers grooming and raing and passing around these girls?

You should not taint the whole community by the actions of several dozen, a small minority of men. Criminality begins and ends with the criminal - Never mentions the fact that their community isn't too keen on ther kids shagging, so they have to get it elsewhere

In one case I dealt with, a British National party member was convicted of child sexual abuse. The response of the BNP was to say that he was no longer a member. The British Pakistani community cannot do that about members of their community that are involved in abuse,” he says, pointing out that they do not have the same option of neatly removing membership rights from community members involved in abuse. They can soon tell a lass she is no longer welcome if she doesn't marry the right bloke. They could do few honour killings, sine these nonces have brought shame on their community.
 
janiep said:
What's most interesting is that he says "this is a crime by men against women". It's gender not race which is at the heart of the real hate crime here. Well he says lots of interesting things, that's one.
Click to expand...

He is right.

It's a bit of shame that we got this far into the debate before we got to that rather obvious point. It's about men and women, boys and girls. And power. And about who has power over others. And the ability to exercise power over another without accountability or sanction.

That is what links all of these terrible crimes, from Rotherham to Jimmy Savile. People who were able to exercise power over another, without fear of being caught, and who used that power to gratify their own twisted sexuality.
 
Is he right to say the reason the men committing these are Asian is because they predominantly work as taxi drivers and in takeaways?

Lankester Merrin said:
He is right.

It's a bit of shame that we got this far into the debate before we got to that rather obvious point. It's about men and women, boys and girls. And power. And about who has power over others. And the ability to exercise power over another without accountability or sanction.

That is what links all of these terrible crimes, from Rotherham to Jimmy Savile. People who were able to exercise power over another, without fear of being caught, and who used that power to gratify their own twisted sexuality.
Click to expand...
 
Lankester Merrin said:
He is right.

It's a bit of shame that we got this far into the debate before we got to that rather obvious point. It's about men and women, boys and girls. And power. And about who has power over others. And the ability to exercise power over another without accountability or sanction.

That is what links all of these terrible crimes, from Rotherham to Jimmy Savile. People who were able to exercise power over another, without fear of being caught, and who used that power to gratify their own twisted sexuality.
Click to expand...

We are ll aware that there are rapists in all communities that isn't the issue. the issue is, is there something specific about pakistani communities that foster these nonce gangs. is tere something about British Pakistani communities that twists the sexuality of some of it's punters?

If they were white gangs, there would be questions about the phenomenon of why white punters have got together and start raping council kids. they just go to Thailand instead.

Is there a possibility that there may be complicit acceptance of the young men using these women to stop them being difficult in their on community. The coppers seemed happy that the Pakistanis were keeping the naughty kids occupied.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top