"The Conservative party would have us believe that the poor deserve to be punished"

[daveydavey]

The global financial crisis of 2008 you mean ?

Yes, the one that showed we were probably the most ill equipped developed economy in the world to deal with such a thing, and highlighted the Labour governments total ignorance to fixing the roof while the sun was shining. Quite how, after the boom years we had, we are in such a disastrous position are questions which are 100% for Labour to answer

 

[Brexit]

The Green Party suffers, unfairly, from an image problem. Too many smart arses mock their policies.

So they're in the same boat as all of the others then.

 

[Randy Ostrich]

I was at a meeting the other week in South Shields with Martin Weale from the Bank of England and he showed the position now and the expected position over the next few years and we are in good shape. Please feel free to tell them their wrong though. Sorry I don't have his graphs.

Go back through the budget speeches and see what growth was "expected" to be in 2012, 2013, 14 etc. The forecasts had to be cut every year.

Edit - found it. The prediction was growth of 1.2% in 2010, 2.3% in 2011, 2.7% in 2012 and 2.9% in 2013. The words 'double dip' do not feature.

Osborne also said public sector net debt would be 70% in 2014. It's currently 77%. He also said net borrowing would be 3.5% of GDP. It's actually over 7%.

Have a look, it's worth a giggle:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...=9sUyMcZn9J6UZEQNFarxuw&bvm=bv.76477589,d.ZWU

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

 

[Mark E Smith]

Yes, the one that showed we were probably the most ill equipped developed economy in the world to deal with such a thing, and highlighted the Labour governments total ignorance to fixing the roof while the sun was shining. Quite how, after the boom years we had, we are in such a disastrous position are questions which are 100% for Labour to answer

The government spent £120 billion bailing out the banks in 2008. The economy wasn't so fucked that we could afford it.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

In all honesty, I'd include Mandelson in that. There's a shit load of experience there, but at the same time, I think it was right to move away from the Blair era. I'd agree about Balls too, but after watching that sociopathic wanker Osborne stand and lie constantly for about 45 minutes the other day, he'd get my vote anytime.

I remember in the eye of the hurricane/crisis Mandelson came up with the car scappage scheme which really did well at a time when confidence was slipping away. He may be a slimy as they go but he had far more ability than that idiot Vince Cable as Business Secretary.

 

[Thurston]

The Green Party suffers, unfairly, from an image problem. Too many smart arses mock their policies. Voters get called hippies etc. if you're mature enough to laugh them off and vote for the policies you want then isn't a problem.

The Green Party is offering to make some difficult and unpopular decisions. It is time for the voting public to ask themselves the question about whether hey want short term profit and comfort or to protect what's left of the planet for our children. If he voters choose the first option then fine, The Tory Party will make the wealthy even more wealthy. I wonder if people will ever have the courage to go for the second option. Here's hoping. They have my vote, as an ex-Labour then ex-Lim Dem voter.

I ended up talking to quite a few Green Party voters/members/candidates/activists and even their leader through various social-media during and after the European elections. Didn't see the tree-hugging hippy thing at all. By and large they just seemed to be people who are socially-democratic, some disillusioned ex-Labour voters/socialists, who are pissed off with neo-liberalist politics. Nothing wrong with that.

I actually agree with a lot of their stuff. They'd have done well under a proportional representation voting system.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

Go back through the budget speeches and see what growth was "expected" to be in 2012, 2013, 14 etc. The forecasts had to be cut every year.

Edit - found it. The prediction was growth of 1.2% in 2010, 2.3% in 2011, 2.7% in 2012 and 2.9% in 2013. The words 'double dip' do not feature.

Osborne also said public sector net debt would be 70% in 2014. It's currently 77%. He also said net borrowing would be 3.5% of GDP. It's actually over 7%.

Have a look, it's worth a giggle:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http://budgetresponsibility.org.uk/wordpress/docs/junebudget_annexc.pdf&ei=jG8tVIqXIM6rPLLsgPgD&usg=AFQjCNFlwmH3_82oD1rRQz2B_f4kvHXNbw&sig2=9sUyMcZn9J6UZEQNFarxuw&bvm=bv.76477589,d.ZWU

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

I was talking about a guy from the MPC at the Bank of England, one of the 2 who voted for interest rises. You can find statistics to back anything up but I do put some credence to what Martin Weale said and I found it encouraging. I'm not name dropping but I went to a lunch with him one day and then chaired a meeting he talked at the next day. He would not say anything political but as someone who got his MBE for services to Economics I found his optimism encouraging.

 

[MarcoGoalo]

The government spent £120 billion bailing out the banks in 2008. The economy wasn't so fucked that we could afford it.

Would've cost the country a lot more if they didn't though

 

[Randy Ostrich]

I was talking about a guy from the MPC at the Bank of England, one of the 2 who voted for interest rises. You can find statistics to back anything up but I do put some credence to what Martin Weale said and I found it encouraging. I'm not name dropping but I went to a lunch with him one day and then chaired a meeting he talked at the next day. He would not say anything political but as someone who got his MBE for services to Economics I found his optimism encouraging.

We can but hope mate. I wouldn't trust any politician to have any sort of plan but you'd hope that the Bank of England have some idea what they are doing!

All I'd say is don't put too much credence in the recent "growth" as some sign of Tory competence as we were one of the last major economies to get our GDP back to pre-crisis levels.

 

[Thurston]

I remember in the eye of the hurricane/crisis Mandelson came up with the car scappage scheme which really did well at a time when confidence was slipping away. He may be a slimy as they go but he had far more ability than that idiot Vince Cable as Business Secretary.

Was reading a thing the other day actually about how they'd always go to great lengths to avoid taxing new vehicles etc, because most of the journalists/editors who would be doing a write up of their policies/budgets would be driving about in brand-new Range Rovers. We built the British Empire with that kind of thinking, man

 

[Mark E Smith]

Would've cost the country a lot more if they didn't though

Agreed, luckily we had the resources to fund it which undermines the above claim that we were "ill equipped" to deal with the global crash.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

We can but hope mate. I wouldn't trust any politician to have any sort of plan but you'd hope that the Bank of England have some idea what they are doing!

All I'd say is don't put too much credence in the recent "growth" as some sign of Tory competence as we were one of the last major economies to get our GDP back to pre-crisis levels.

No, I agree. I actually think Brown's decision to give the BofE this target of inflation and interest rates has a massive effect. I believe the biggest single effect on growth is lower inflation and so it was a master stroke by Brown. That said I asked Martin Weale why UK has better growth than Germany, US etc. now and for the near future i.e. political policies or structure such as the B of E controlling interest rates and he wouldn't answer only saying I hope we (the B of E) have had some effect. I'm sure the appointment of Mark Carney has had a positive effect as well.

 

[Thurston]

We can but hope mate. I wouldn't trust any politician to have any sort of plan but you'd hope that the Bank of England have some idea what they are doing!

All I'd say is don't put too much credence in the recent "growth" as some sign of Tory competence as we were one of the last major economies to get our GDP back to pre-crisis levels.

I have no confidence or any kind of belief in Tory competence whatsoever, to be honest.

I remember prior to the last election when Osborne had pledged to match Labour spending pound for pound, until they got in and then he seized on the opportunity presented by the financial crisis to implement 'austerity' which in their terms actually amounts to nothing more than a chance to play politics with lives of some of the weakest and poorest parts of society, getting a dig in at Labour, and making his mates rich, at the same time.

Numerous noted economists have said austerity was never neccessary at all, and has probably as you suggest, contributed to actually slowing down the growth.

When you also consider that he hasn't got anywhere near his pledge of getting rid of the deficit which he said would be gone by 2015, and that he's also borrowed more in four years than Labour did in the thirteen before that, the man is nothing but a horrible, lying twat.

 

[Randy Ostrich]

the man is nothing but a horrible, lying twat.

The dictionary definition of politician

 

[Kent_Mackem]

I have no confidence or any kind of belief in Tory competence whatsoever, to be honest.

I remember prior to the last election when Osborne had pledged to match Labour spending pound for pound, until they got in and then he seized on the opportunity presented by the financial crisis to implement 'austerity' which in their terms actually amounts to nothing more than a chance to play politics with lives of some of the weakest and poorest parts of society, getting a dig in at Labour, and making his mates rich, at the same time.

Numerous noted economists have said austerity was never neccessary at all, and has probably as you suggest, contributed to actually slowing down the growth.

When you also consider that he hasn't got anywhere near his pledge of getting rid of the deficit which he said would be gone by 2015, and that he's also borrowed more in four years than Labour did in the thirteen before that, the man is nothing but a horrible, lying twat.

Best post on the thread. If I had my last sticky gold star I'd hoy it on in a heartbeat.

 

[Hongkongphooey]

As posted earlier, what does that have to do with the price of fish?

When compared, though, to some of those that do I, genuinely, despair.

Brain dead monkeys who no nowt and never want to learn anything.

If left to me I would disenfranchise anyone who could not pass a basic test about the UK and display a reasonable understanding of each party's manifesto!

Do you have a vote?

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

It was Cameron himself that previously admitted the voters wouldn't be stupid enough to swallow promises of tax cuts before the deficit was eradicated. Obviously he doesn't include the blue-rinse / Tim-nice-but-dim brigade in this.

What is interesting from those latest polls which have obviously put the wind up Ashcroft is that they do not factor in direct challenges from Ukip in Tory held seats. The three types of marginals polled are Lab-Tory, Lab-Lib and Tory-Lib. Ashcroft summed his analysis up as:

Lord Ashcroft, who said he would only contribute “bits and pieces” in financial terms to the Tories’ election campaign, added that he didn’t think the Conservatives could win with ad campaigns and political announcements from the centre. “It is a very uphill struggle,” he said. “We cannot win an air war against Ed Miliband. Waffle from [Conservative] central office is not going to work.”

Cutting back his financial backing perhaps?

I think the defections to Ukip will continue over the next 7 months and Cameron does indeed appear to have a mountain to climb so we'll hear plenty of promises as he tackles commitments and challenges to and from Scotland, Europe and Ukip with his own domestic backyard in shambles. You can promise the Earth when you know you wont win. Remember Michael Howard, the man who said yes to everything. Then when the polls turned near the end and it looked like he might win nearly shit himself and blurted out how the party needed a younger leader.

 

[York]

I've never been a Labour voter but was really pleased with the way Bliar and his cronies got this country moiving when they first cam to power. The sheer energy they had when they swept to power was awe inspiring and there was real hope for this country. The issues you always get with politics as that Parties are never happy with what they have. The demise of Bliar brought Brown and the country, in my opinion went rapidly downhill. The benefits culture was seriously reinforced as Labour borrowed as if there was no tomorrow and took us down the pan. The note left at the Treasury for the in-coming coalition, of there is no money left, should remain to haunt Labour. The Conservatives said at the start of the coalition that reality would show they would right the economy then lose the next election as they had to mke the difficult choices which the electorate wouldnt like.

As to the next impending election, I'd happily vote Labour if they ofered me a fresh approach - they don't - the same hoods who were at the centre of everything that went wrong under Labours last watch are still there. They cannot bring themselves to say they got it wrong last time, and Ed Balls can't even balance his own bank account ffs.
Interesting times ahead.

 

[sidneyeric]

I've never been a Labour voter but was really pleased with the way Bliar and his cronies got this country moiving when they first cam to power. The sheer energy they had when they swept to power was awe inspiring and there was real hope for this country. The issues you always get with politics as that Parties are never happy with what they have. The demise of Bliar brought Brown and the country, in my opinion went rapidly downhill. The benefits culture was seriously reinforced as Labour borrowed as if there was no tomorrow and took us down the pan. The note left at the Treasury for the in-coming coalition, of there is no money left, should remain to haunt Labour. The Conservatives said at the start of the coalition that reality would show they would right the economy then lose the next election as they had to mke the difficult choices which the electorate wouldnt like.

As to the next impending election, I'd happily vote Labour if they ofered me a fresh approach - they don't - the same hoods who were at the centre of everything that went wrong under Labours last watch are still there. They cannot bring themselves to say they got it wrong last time, and Ed Balls can't even balance his own bank account ffs.
Interesting times ahead.

The note that didn't exist ?

 

[tiptoad]

Tories hold £25k champagne party before announcing huge benefits cuts

David Cameron and George Osborne were the guests of honour at a lavish £25,000 party – just hours before they unveiled savage spending cuts.

The Prime Minister and Chancellor joined more than 60 senior Tories at one of Britain’s top restaurants for the exclusive event.

Billionaire financier Michael Spencer hosted and paid for the “thank you” bash at the Michelin-starred Simpsons restaurant in Birmingham on Monday night as he stood down after four years as Tory Party treasurer.

His guests enjoyed a four-course meal washed down with champagne and up to 24 bottles of Pétrus – dubbed “the most expensive wine in the world”.

The next morning Mr Osborne hammered home his “we’re all in this together” message at the Tory conference – confirming his plans to axe child benefit payments to 1.2million families.

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