"The Conservative party would have us believe that the poor deserve to be punished"

[daveydavey]

Let's not forget the economy was growing before the Tories took charge and cut any growth away.

Your best bet is to assume that no politician has the first idea about economics as that is probably the truth. As with anything remotely political, the facts are nowhere near as important as the message.

Yes, but from a significantly receded position.

You mean the proposals from the last election ? For starters......

Eliminating the deficit over the course of this parliament ? They haven't even halved it.

Bringing down borrowing - they have borrowed more in 4 years than Labour did in 13. National debt is up £600 billion.

Growth down since 2010, losing the AAA credit rating, tax revenue down due to the proliferation of zero hour contracts.

The myth is constantly being peddled that the Tories are somehow the most economically competent. It's a load of f***ing horseshite, particularly in the hands of towel-folder Osborne, who has missed every single target he set himself initially.

Would the Labour party have even set the target though, Mark? I cannot believe for an instant that under the Labour party our position as a credible economy would be in a better shape than it is now - and while I can't say with certainty it would be dramatically worse, I certainly have reason to think it could be.

"The coalition has so far run up more public debt than all the Labour governments since 1900 combined".
politics.co.uk

Supports of your argument will love that, but let nobody be under any doubt that had Labour been in power the time the Conservatives have then the numbers we're talking about what be considerably higher.

 

[Flavonoids]

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Who did you bat for before Nigel and UKIP?

 

[Mark E Smith]

Yes, but from a significantly receded position.

Would the Labour party have even set the target though, Mark? I cannot believe for an instant that under the Labour party our position as a credible economy would be in a better shape than it is now - and while I can't say with certainty it would be dramatically worse, I certainly have reason to think it could be.


Supports of your argument will love that, but let nobody be under any doubt that had Labour been in power the time the Conservatives have then the numbers we're talking about what be considerably higher.

The thing is, you're basing your position on what might have happened under a Labour govt. What I, and many other voters are looking at is what the Tories have achieved (or rather not achieved) in actual real terms.

You cannot deny that the Tory economic policy has been a complete failure on the most basic of levels. Even the alleged "recovery" is based on a housing market bubble and which affects only a handful of people. I'm not even taking a particular political stance here, the facts speak for themselves.

 

[ajthemackem]

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

The latest Yougov poll has Labour 7 points ahead and has them with a substantial lead in key marginals. This is despite an almost blanket media bias towards the Tories and a daily character assassination of Milliband.

There is NO f***ing WAY that the Tories will win the next election. I'm happy for you to bookmark this.

Fair do's. I still think you may be wrong. I am a long time Labour voter and don't need the media to assassinate Milliband. He is a disastrous choice as leader. He didn't even perform well as Energy Minister. I am just amazed that there isn't more anger about Milliband from Labour supporters. I certainly feel anger when I consider him as leader of this country.

 

[Randy Ostrich]

Yes, but from a significantly receded position.

Would the Labour party have even set the target though, Mark? I cannot believe for an instant that under the Labour party our position as a credible economy would be in a better shape than it is now - and while I can't say with certainty it would be dramatically worse, I certainly have reason to think it could be.


Supports of your argument will love that, but let nobody be under any doubt that had Labour been in power the time the Conservatives have then the numbers we're talking about what be considerably higher.

Chiefly thanks to a worldwide financial crash. The numbers themselves are meaningless without context. Labour loved trumpeting the 40% of gdp as responsibility whilst piling huge amounts of government debt off the balance sheet. But the Tories are wedded to the same tricks and actually invented most of them.

As I said before, I wouldn't award any politician a mantle of economic credibility as none of them have the slightest clue what they are doing. Governments can tinker at the edges and they can certainly manage to make things worse, but as for making things better, they are simply slaves to events.

 

[Laeotaekhun]

Do you have a vote ?

As posted earlier, what does that have to do with the price of fish?

When compared, though, to some of those that do I, genuinely, despair.

Brain dead monkeys who no nowt and never want to learn anything.

If left to me I would disenfranchise anyone who could not pass a basic test about the UK and display a reasonable understanding of each party's manifesto!

 

[Mark E Smith]

Fair do's. I still think you may be wrong. I am a long time Labour voter and don't need the media to assassinate Milliband. He is a disastrous choice as leader. He didn't even perform well as Energy Minister. I am just amazed that there isn't more anger about Milliband from Labour supporters. I certainly feel anger when I consider him as leader of this country.

I really don't see how, as an alleged Labour supporter you would feel "anger" at Milliband becoming PM.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

The thing is, you're basing your position on what might have happened under a Labour govt. What I, and many other voters are looking at is what the Tories have achieved (or rather not achieved) in actual real terms.

You cannot deny that the Tory economic policy has been a complete failure on the most basic of levels. Even the alleged "recovery" is based on a housing market bubble and which affects only a handful of people. I'm not even taking a particular political stance here, the facts speak for themselves.

We use the same measures as all other countries and our GDP growth is better than any major European country and only India and China have a growth rate better than the UK in the Top 10 economies in the World. It is staggering that you describe the Tories economic policy as a complete failure. The rest of the world would not see it that way.

 

[Thurston]

I would vote Green if there was one standing. I can't vote Tory as it is not my politics but I can't vote Labour (for the 1st time ever) because I think Milliband will be a disaster for the country. I can't vote UKIP because they are as credible as the Monster Raving Loony party for me.

I've had an inkling for the Greens for a while, and I have been aggressively anti-Labour for a few years. They've been poor in opposition. However I think regardless of what people think of Milliband (rightly or wrongly) there's still some hope for them as a party. To be fair, I think a lot of his problems are of his making, and come from a strong right-wing media which are very much against him, and allowing the Tories to embed what is largely to be fair, a load of bullshit about Labour's handling of the economy into the public conciousness, while Labour pissed about for the first several months of this government trying to decide on the party leadership. On the other hand, I think he currently seems a lot more steady and preferable to Cameron and an increasingly reactionary Tory Party which is moving further to the right.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

I really don't see how, as an alleged Labour supporter you would feel "anger" at Milliband becoming PM.

I make my judgements on his ability to lead. I don't believe he has any leadership ability and because of him its the first time in my life I don't feel I can vote Labour. I am not alone in this. Additionally he lied right at the start of leadership campaign saying he was against the Iraq war. Regardless of his politics he represents, to me, everything that is wrong with Politicians in the UK.

I've had an inkling for the Greens for a while, and I have been aggressively anti-Labour for a few years. They've been poor in opposition. However I think regardless of what people think of Milliband (rightly or wrongly) there's still some hope for them as a party. To be fair, I think a lot of his problems are of his making, and come from a strong right-wing media which are very much against him, and allowing the Tories to embed what is largely to be fair, a load of bullshit about Labour's handling of the economy into the public conciousness, while Labour pissed about for the first several months of this government trying to decide on the party leadership. On the other hand, I think he currently seems a lot more steady and preferable to Cameron and an increasingly reactionary Tory Party which is moving further to the right.

I worry that under Blair and Brown we had some 'heavy weight' politicians in Straw, Johnson, Blunkett, Reid, Clarke, even Darling. Under Milliband they have all walked away. I am appalled at the lack of leadership and vision from Milliband but would feel happier if there was some strength behind him. But Ed Balls?? Really??

 

[Randy Ostrich]

We use the same measures as all other countries and our GDP growth is better than any major European country and only India and China have a growth rate better than the UK in the Top 10 economies in the World. It is staggering that you describe the Tories economic policy as a complete failure. The rest of the world would not see it that way.

Of course we have faster growth - we're coming from a lower point than just about everyone else. It's called 'playing catch up'.

Look what happens after the election in 2010:

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[daveydavey]

The thing is, you're basing your position on what might have happened under a Labour govt. What I, and many other voters are looking at is what the Tories have achieved (or rather not achieved) in actual real terms.

You cannot deny that the Tory economic policy has been a complete failure on the most basic of levels. Even the alleged "recovery" is based on a housing market bubble and which affects only a handful of people. I'm not even taking a particular political stance here, the facts speak for themselves.

Yeah well I don't think you can build an argument on what the Conservative government have done which the Labour party might / might not have, without accepting what did happen under Labours watch in 2008.

 

[Mark E Smith]

We use the same measures as all other countries and our GDP growth is better than any major European country and only India and China have a growth rate better than the UK in the Top 10 economies in the World. It is staggering that you describe the Tories economic policy as a complete failure. The rest of the world would not see it that way.

Economic growth after 4 years of stagnation ? Whoopee f***ing do.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

Of course we have faster growth - we're coming from a lower point than just about everyone else. It's called 'playing catch up'.

Look what happens after the election in 2010:

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I was at a meeting the other week in South Shields with Martin Weale from the Bank of England and he showed the position now and the expected position over the next few years and we are in good shape. Please feel free to tell them their wrong though. Sorry I don't have his graphs.

 

[Mark E Smith]

Yeah well I don't think you can build an argument on what the Conservative government have done which the Labour party might / might not have, without accepting what did happen under Labours watch in 2008.

The global financial crisis of 2008 you mean ?

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

Economic growth after 4 years of stagnation ? Whoopee f***ing do.

Seriously, I am a traditional Labour voter but I would say that as we go into an election the position we are in at the moment will favour the Tories.

 

[Thurston]

I make my judgements on his ability to lead. I don't believe he has any leadership ability and because of him its the first time in my life I don't feel I can vote Labour. I am not alone in this. Additionally he lied right at the start of leadership campaign saying he was against the Iraq war. Regardless of his politics he represents, to me, everything that is wrong with Politicians in the UK.



I worry that under Blair and Brown we had some 'heavy weight' politicians in Straw, Johnson, Blunkett, Reid, Clarke, even Darling. Under Milliband they have all walked away. I am appalled at the lack of leadership and vision from Milliband but would feel happier if there was some strength behind him. But Ed Balls?? Really??

In all honesty, I'd include Mandelson in that. There's a shit load of experience there, but at the same time, I think it was right to move away from the Blair era. I'd agree about Balls too, but after watching that sociopathic wanker Osborne stand and lie constantly for about 45 minutes the other day, he'd get my vote anytime.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

I've had an inkling for the Greens for a while, and I have been aggressively anti-Labour for a few years. They've been poor in opposition. However I think regardless of what people think of Milliband (rightly or wrongly) there's still some hope for them as a party. To be fair, I think a lot of his problems are of his making, and come from a strong right-wing media which are very much against him, and allowing the Tories to embed what is largely to be fair, a load of bullshit about Labour's handling of the economy into the public conciousness, while Labour pissed about for the first several months of this government trying to decide on the party leadership. On the other hand, I think he currently seems a lot more steady and preferable to Cameron and an increasingly reactionary Tory Party which is moving further to the right.

The Green Party suffers, unfairly, from an image problem. Too many smart arses mock their policies. Voters get called hippies etc. if you're mature enough to laugh them off and vote for the policies you want then isn't a problem.

The Green Party is offering to make some difficult and unpopular decisions. It is time for the voting public to ask themselves the question about whether hey want short term profit and comfort or to protect what's left of the planet for our children. If he voters choose the first option then fine, The Tory Party will make the wealthy even more wealthy. I wonder if people will ever have the courage to go for the second option. Here's hoping. They have my vote, as an ex-Labour then ex-Lim Dem voter.

 

[Laeotaekhun]

The global financial crisis of 2008 you mean ?

Please don't forget the devaluation in the Pound, which occurred on Brown's watch (before the financial crisis) and reduced the spending power of those abroad by (iirc) about 17.5% over a two year period.